What's jesus's primary message?

[nobspeople]

One a different thread, ostend said:

At the risk of proposing another heresy, I don't believe the primary message Jesus preached was to get people saved so they can enter the celestial heaven after they die. Yes, it's important, who wants to go to hell? But, it was not Jesus's primary message.

Who wants to go to hell? Indeed. Likely no one 'wants to', which is one reason christianity is as successful as it is: fear of hell (throw in guilt and you have a winner, baby!).

That aside, it's taught jesus came to earth (god became man and other malarkey that not every one believes) to be a sacrifice for mankind. Sacrifice for what? Their sins, it seems. This would, again, seem to open a pathway to heaven.
But, if, as osteng believes, that's not jesus's primary message, what was it?
Was it successful?
I don't know of anything else he did, aside from starting a religion which, successful as it may seem when counting heads in pews, it's not difficult to do as the testament of the myriad of other religions that existed before and after his lifetime.

[Noose001]

Darkness describes a condition in reality when there exists an absence of visible light at a particular space and time but not necessarily the absence of anything else. If there were no reality, then darkness couldn't exist because it requires a reality in which the absence of visible light could occur. Therefore, if there were no reality "before" the Big Bang, then the condition described as darkness couldn't have existed then. However, I'm unaware of there being sufficient evidence available to justify any claim about what did or did not exist prior to the Big Bang. So, the claim that darkness existed before the universe began is conjecture.]

Darkness is nothing, so how is it real?!
In the absence of anything, there should be darkness (nothing).
And you don't need any evidence to know that in the absence of something there is nothing. It is common knowledge.

Yes we've veered off topic but it's important to establish what reality means to you.

[Noose001]

Darkness describes a condition in reality when there exists an absence of visible light at a particular space and time but not necessarily the absence of anything else. If there were no reality, then darkness couldn't exist because it requires a reality in which the absence of visible light could occur. Therefore, if there were no reality "before" the Big Bang, then the condition described as darkness couldn't have existed then. However, I'm unaware of there being sufficient evidence available to justify any claim about what did or did not exist prior to the Big Bang. So, the claim that darkness existed before the universe began is conjecture.

*Note: This discussion is obviously off-topic from the OP. I don't recall if it was me who first departed away from the OP but apologize for my contribution.


In that case, darkness is the screen which the light is projected upon.

It is therefore the first thing to be mentioned re the creation story.

Light derives from sound, as the story goes. Darkness was already present. The light was what was created.

The Effect of Sound and The Universe [Thread Link]

The 'Heaven" and the "Earth" appear to be different 'places' which existed prior to the creation of light through sound...perhaps both place were necessary elementals, engaging with each other, prior to light being created?

Both darkness and light are a construct of the mind and so is all the universe. That applies to sound and silence too.

Off topic, so i'll engage in this no more.

[bluegreenearth]

Darkness is nothing, so how is it real?!
In the absence of anything, there should be darkness (nothing).
And you don't need any evidence to know that in the absence of something there is nothing. It is common knowledge.

Yes we've veered off topic but it's important to establish what reality means to you.

Note: This is my last response here because the OP of the thread is about Jesus's primary message and not the ontology of darkness. If you are interested in debating people on the topic of darkness, you are welcome to start a new thread.

Darkness is not nothing. Darkness is the label we use to describe a state of reality in which things exist in an absence of visible light. The phrase "in the absence of anything" describes no reality. If there were no reality, there would be no things existing in an absence of visible light. Therefore, darkness would not exist.

[William]

Darkness is nothing, so how is it real?!
In the absence of anything, there should be darkness (nothing).
And you don't need any evidence to know that in the absence of something there is nothing. It is common knowledge.

Yes we've veered off topic but it's important to establish what reality means to you.

Note: This is my last response here because the OP of the thread is about Jesus's primary message and not the ontology of darkness. If you are interested in debating people on the topic of darkness, you are welcome to start a new thread.

Darkness is not nothing. Darkness is the label we use to describe a state of reality in which things exist in an absence of visible light. The phrase "in the absence of anything" describes no reality. If there were no reality, there would be no things existing in an absence of visible light. Therefore, darkness would not exist.

There may be a way in which to tie the subjects together.

For example, biblical Jesus speaks of himself as 'light'...as a feature we can identify re his message.
Is it part of his 'primary message'?

Gospel John
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Jesus speaks of others as being 'light'.

Gospel Matthew
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Light is information whereas Dark is lack of information.

Lack of information does not mean that information is not there in the dark, but that it is hidden from the consciousness of those who cannot penetrate it.

Even so, there is information about Dark which we can identify - and this is because light exists.