Purpose

[nobspeople]

Do we all have a purpose?
From another thread (about why christians don't wish death on those they 'know' will go to heaven when they die), a poster said:

One need not be a Christian or even a theist to realize one has a purpose to fulfill prior to death.

This made me question rather or not we all DO have a purpose, how we know what it is, how we know when it's accomplished and what do we do, once it's accomplised?

Thoughts for discussion?

[theophile]

.


I suppose one can set a specific goal (establish a purpose) in life and work toward it, but as for being born with any purpose, No. Just as those who don't set any goal in life would lack a purpose.


.

Why do you say one isn't born with a purpose? Not disagreeing, simply curious as to your reasoning.

I've simply never seen any evidence of it.


.......... Anyone here on Debating Christianity have any evidence of life having a purpose?

.

Genesis 1:28 -

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

That is the first statement of our purpose in the bible. As to whether this counts as 'evidence', probably not...

But I think the pursuit of evidence here is a bit misguided. To reiterate comments already made, it presumes (to use existentialist language for a moment) that essence precedes existence, i.e., that we were made by design to have a certain function / purpose that an analysis of our being could find evidence for and expose.

Maybe that's true (e.g., God did make us in God's image as man and woman, which I think is meaningful and indicates some kind of thoughtful design).

I would tend toward the existentialist view, however, that for the most part our existence precedes our essence, i.e., we have to give meaning and purpose to our own lives.

God may have a plan for us and call us to certain purpose in life, but that will only happen if we take it on ourselves. We clearly have the freedom to go another way and serve other ends according to our will.

Biblically speaking, our purpose is more in our calling than it is in our design... So if we're looking for evidence, we should look there. It's more a question of whether the purpose we are called to is compelling, and is something we should commit our lives to.

That, I think, is something each of us has to weigh on our own.

[bluegreenearth]

Do we all have a purpose?

I don't know, but it doesn't seem to matter much. If we all have a purpose, then all of us are acting in accordance with that purpose whether we are aware of it or not. If we don't have a purpose, then all of us are acting in accordance with our own imagined purpose whether we are aware of it or not.

[TRANSPONDER]

I'm not sure whether this counts as 'Evidence' but I'd suggest that biology has One purpose for us - survival as a species. In addition to which the evolution of pack - instinct and a concept of an individual place within that pack added an instinct of personal.survival.

This was summed up in a meme in the old days: "Eat, Survive, Reproduce" which has of course been institutionalized through human reasoning into the more sophisticated: "Dine out, drive carefully, and Your place or mine?".

That's just the basic biological Reason for existence, and most people seem to be willing to go along with that day to day survival and existence, with some entertainment to fill the many many leisure hours we never had in the past before industrialized society and for which we are hardly grateful. If they wish to have on their tombstone (should anyone be bothered to erect one) ' "I did my job, I added to overpopulation, I watched TV" good for them. Some of us require something more. I already mentioned the instinct of curiosity, once a survival instinct, now a human characteristic, and the innate desire to keep on living. I won't repeat it here. But it comes down to the old 'hard truths or comfortable lies?' Belief in an afterlife that we probably don't get, or accepting a finite life and making the most of it. That's the choice.

Seems to be representative of a thought that was said earlier: does humanity get to rightfully pick our purpose, or have it thrusts upon humanity(bolded above)?
Going further, if it is thrusts upon humanity (by biology, god, another person, who- or what-ever), must humanity comply, or shun it and take a different path - different purpose?

Huh. There I was with my bags of Treats and nobody came knocking. So I'll just have to eat my twinkie -bars myself. And I so often come back and find the conversation has moved on a page from where I posted last.

Anyway. I was getting at....sorry to refer to all my famous old slogans that nobody ever picks up 'We can do better than the hand evolution dealt us'. Understanding human character, instinct and culture in terms of biological and social evolution, enables us to understand what is driving us and seeing what is not in our own or the planet's interests.

[William]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

Do we all have a purpose?

I think for the most part, yes.

This made me question rather or not we all DO have a purpose, how we know what it is, how we know when it's accomplished and what do we do, once it's accomplished?

Obviously you have reasons for doing what you do...hereabouts...or you would be elsewhere doing something else.

You seem to be speaking to the idea of having many purposes, some of which can be accomplished...and it can be seen in the doing of something, that purpose is created and fine-tuned.

For a non-theist I imagine that this is focused upon the tangible mailable reality close to hand, rather than finding ones purpose in relation to Andromeda, or a God - neither of which you can touch.

For me as a theist, at least I can see Andromeda, thanks largely to humans who created for themselves - Purpose - and the opportunity I have had in their legacy to me, is significant and appreciated.

That should inspire me to the Purpose of Legacy, but I am too poor and wretched to make waves which will be noticed by the crowd.

What I do have though, are the tangible inventions which help me to shape purposeful creations, which are still useful re those physically closest to where I am.

Like computer and software and hardware, it has given me opportunity to create purpose for where I exist, if not for why I exist.

This is because I am theist, and therefore just shrugging and getting on about creating purpose, I also wonder at why I have the opportunity to do so in the first place, because that is where the question of Purpose took me when I asked.

The answer comes in a form of a voice from within the darkness, [which I have come to refer as "The Mind Behind Creation] - [aka "a God" of some sort] and with that come strange accusations re delusion and/or Satan...and I wonder if I really even saw that coming re my fascination with the subject [The Voice From Within The Darkness.]

Did I even take that into account before blurting everything out into a world where there is no good purpose for such a thing as Delusion and Satan?

And does that come across as sounding like I am trying to defend both?

[Miles]

.


I suppose one can set a specific goal (establish a purpose) in life and work toward it, but as for being born with any purpose, No. Just as those who don't set any goal in life would lack a purpose.


.

Why do you say one isn't born with a purpose? Not disagreeing, simply curious as to your reasoning.

I've simply never seen any evidence of it.


.......... Anyone here on Debating Christianity have any evidence of life having a purpose?

.

Genesis 1:28 -

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

That is the first statement of our purpose in the bible. As to whether this counts as 'evidence', probably not...

I agree. Biblical statements simply don't count as evidence, or at least good evidence, particularly in light of all the troubles its writings are beset with: witness the hundreds of Christian denominations that disagree about what the Bible says.

Biblically speaking, our purpose is more in our calling than it is in our design... So if we're looking for evidence, we should look there. It's more a question of whether the purpose we are called to is compelling, and is something we should commit our lives to.

That, I think, is something each of us has to weigh on our own.

So, do you think that the purpose the Christian god had in mind for us, whatever it is, is compromised or invalidated by how we regard it?


.

[theophile]

Biblically speaking, our purpose is more in our calling than it is in our design... So if we're looking for evidence, we should look there. It's more a question of whether the purpose we are called to is compelling, and is something we should commit our lives to.

That, I think, is something each of us has to weigh on our own.

So, do you think that the purpose the Christian god had in mind for us, whatever it is, is compromised or invalidated by how we regard it?

.

Sure there is always the risk of compromise. But I do think at bottom the purpose we are called to is pretty simple. It's to fill the earth with life, and to rule in a way that fosters and enables life of every kind. In all its manifestations. That sounds simple (and is) but it quickly becomes incredibly complex. We have tendency to suppress certain kinds of life (our fallen nature) - different gender expressions for example. It also raises difficult questions about what is right for life? Questions like, is it right to destroy life to save it? Questions we ought to explore despite the challenge or our sensibilities.

[Miles]

Biblically speaking, our purpose is more in our calling than it is in our design... So if we're looking for evidence, we should look there. It's more a question of whether the purpose we are called to is compelling, and is something we should commit our lives to.

That, I think, is something each of us has to weigh on our own.

So, do you think that the purpose the Christian god had in mind for us, whatever it is, is compromised or invalidated by how we regard it?

.

Sure there is always the risk of compromise. But I do think at bottom the purpose we are called to is pretty simple. It's to fill the earth with life, and to rule in a way that fosters and enables life of every kind. In all its manifestations.

So the purpose of life is to fill the earth with life . . . . really? But why would god, who I assume contrived it all, want to do this, which is the real question here: For what purpose has god filled the earth with life? Personally, my guess is Entertainment. He finds the human condition, with all its strife and tragedy, amusing.


.

[theophile]

Biblically speaking, our purpose is more in our calling than it is in our design... So if we're looking for evidence, we should look there. It's more a question of whether the purpose we are called to is compelling, and is something we should commit our lives to.

That, I think, is something each of us has to weigh on our own.

So, do you think that the purpose the Christian god had in mind for us, whatever it is, is compromised or invalidated by how we regard it?

.

Sure there is always the risk of compromise. But I do think at bottom the purpose we are called to is pretty simple. It's to fill the earth with life, and to rule in a way that fosters and enables life of every kind. In all its manifestations.

So the purpose of life is to fill the earth with life . . . . really? .

Recall what I said before (and what you had no argument against at the time), i.e., the first statement of our purpose in the bible:

Genesis 1:28 -

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

So yah. Our purpose according to the bible (like it or not) is to fill the earth with life and to subdue it. Lions laying down with lambs kind of thing. It is to continue the work God started in Genesis 1. (See also Genesis 2:15 where this gets reiterated in our calling to "work" the earth and "take care of it." Basically to be gardeners, as simple as that sounds.)

Any counterpoints?

But why would god, who I assume contrived it all, want to do this, which is the real question here: For what purpose has god filled the earth with life? Personally, my guess is Entertainment. He finds the human condition, with all its strife and tragedy, amusing.
.

That's just who the biblical god is, or what the ancient Israelites wanted to convey as God in their writings. i.e., God is a creator god who calls us all to share this fundamental value (/love of life) and mission of creating the conditions for life to flourish in this world (e.g., light, solid ground, plants, laws, etc.). God is a god who takes joy and rest in the expression of life in all its kinds.

I don't think amusement is the goal. Too many scenes of divine anger and frustration with a recalcitrant humankind.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

Do we all have a purpose?

I think for the most part, yes.

This made me question rather or not we all DO have a purpose, how we know what it is, how we know when it's accomplished and what do we do, once it's accomplished?

Obviously you have reasons for doing what you do...hereabouts...or you would be elsewhere doing something else.

You seem to be speaking to the idea of having many purposes, some of which can be accomplished...and it can be seen in the doing of something, that purpose is created and fine-tuned.

For a non-theist I imagine that this is focused upon the tangible mailable reality close to hand, rather than finding ones purpose in relation to Andromeda, or a God - neither of which you can touch.

For me as a theist, at least I can see Andromeda, thanks largely to humans who created for themselves - Purpose - and the opportunity I have had in their legacy to me, is significant and appreciated.

That should inspire me to the Purpose of Legacy, but I am too poor and wretched to make waves which will be noticed by the crowd.

What I do have though, are the tangible inventions which help me to shape purposeful creations, which are still useful re those physically closest to where I am.

Like computer and software and hardware, it has given me opportunity to create purpose for where I exist, if not for why I exist.

This is because I am theist, and therefore just shrugging and getting on about creating purpose, I also wonder at why I have the opportunity to do so in the first place, because that is where the question of Purpose took me when I asked.

The answer comes in a form of a voice from within the darkness, [which I have come to refer as "The Mind Behind Creation] - [aka "a God" of some sort] and with that come strange accusations re delusion and/or Satan...and I wonder if I really even saw that coming re my fascination with the subject [The Voice From Within The Darkness.]

Did I even take that into account before blurting everything out into a world where there is no good purpose for such a thing as Delusion and Satan?

And does that come across as sounding like I am trying to defend both?

"Even the smallest may change the course of the future" (Galadriel). There is nothing wrong in blurting it out, except that I'd prefer some solid reasoning be behind it. After all debate and discussion of ideas is what moves us on. You put a lot of interesting points or ideas. Yes. We have a motivation for being here. I mean, Here - and it is to persuade or at least convince ourselves. How do we know when we've accomplished our purpose? That depends on the objective. And that may be one in the distance or a series of steps and then the next one. Because the purpose is the journey, not the end.

I give a thumbs up to the appreciation of the technology that allows us to learn about our universe (the incredibly distant and the incredibly small) in ways we couldn't have dreamed were possible.

And the 'mind behind creation' is an interesting one that perhaps puts a finger on the basis. Man made religions - forget 'em. An intent, will or purpose behind it all? Now that's different matter. The fact is that the 'Agnostic' (often classified with atheists - but not 'extreme' ) which is generally actually irreligious theist is a brethren and sistren to the atheist and we can discuss this amicably and reasonably and that's a valid contribution to the discussion.

Ok I'm leaving a lot of loose ends there, but so much of what you said is worth its' own thread.

[Miles]

Biblically speaking, our purpose is more in our calling than it is in our design... So if we're looking for evidence, we should look there. It's more a question of whether the purpose we are called to is compelling, and is something we should commit our lives to.

That, I think, is something each of us has to weigh on our own.

So, do you think that the purpose the Christian god had in mind for us, whatever it is, is compromised or invalidated by how we regard it?

.

Sure there is always the risk of compromise. But I do think at bottom the purpose we are called to is pretty simple. It's to fill the earth with life, and to rule in a way that fosters and enables life of every kind. In all its manifestations.

So the purpose of life is to fill the earth with life . . . . really? .

Recall what I said before (and what you had no argument against at the time), i.e., the first statement of our purpose in the bible:

Genesis 1:28 -

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

So yah. Our purpose according to the bible (like it or not) is to fill the earth with life and to subdue it. Lions laying down with lambs kind of thing. It is to continue the work God started in Genesis 1. (See also Genesis 2:15 where this gets reiterated in our calling to "work" the earth and "take care of it." Basically to be gardeners, as simple as that sounds.)

Any counterpoints?

Yes, but you said the "purpose of life." Do you not see a difference between the possessor of the purpose (who is doing the possessing) and purpose itself (what is being possessed)? So, when you say "the purpose of life is to fill the earth with life. " You're identifying life as both the who and the what, which makes no sense.

But why would god, who I assume contrived it all, want to do this, which is the real question here: For what purpose has god filled the earth with life? Personally, my guess is Entertainment. He finds the human condition, with all its strife and tragedy, amusing.
.

That's just who the biblical god is, or what the ancient Israelites wanted to convey as God in their writings. i.e., God is a creator god who calls us all to share this fundamental value (/love of life) and mission of creating the conditions for life to flourish in this world (e.g., light, solid ground, plants, laws, etc.). God is a god who takes joy and rest in the expression of life in all its kinds.

As well as the creator of all the evil that burdens humanity.

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

I don't think amusement is the goal. Too many scenes of divine anger and frustration with a recalcitrant humankind.

Then what do you think was god's purpose in dropping humanity onto Earth? After all, as an all-knowing (omniscient) creator he had to have known in advance there would be "many scenes of divine anger and frustration with a recalcitrant humankind," yet went ahead and put us here anyway. So if it wasn't for amusement then what was it for?


.