Where do souls come from?

[nobspeople]

Recently heard someone tell their story about their dad. Her dad was going to die before his first grandchild was born. He was sad. His daughter told him that, if he dies before the grandchild is born, to 'go visit him in heaven' before the child is born.

It made me wonder: where do souls come from? Are all souls 'shelved' in heaven somewhere, just waiting for their vessel? Or are they each created at the moment of conception?

Provide proof that made you form your opinion.

[William]

The Hebrew for Soul is נפש.

The First Letter of any Hebrew word is the anchor or HQ of the overall meaning each letter in the word means.

In this case, the first letter is;

נ [Nuun]
Nuun means;

The Nuun is the symbol of faithfulness (ne’eman נאמן), soul (Neshama נשמה), and emergence. The nuun stands for humility, as it is bent both above and below. It represents the soul Neshama, the heavenly spark housed in the earthly container of the body. In Aramaic, Nuun means fish, so Nuun can be thought of as the fish that swims in the waters of the Torah, represented by Mem מ. It is connected to fertility, continuity and the ability to increase and multiply. Nuun also stands for the 50 Gates of Wisdom of Binah.
Nuun indicates constant presence and the humility of the soul. The soul is silent, bent, and humble constantly giving light but staying hidden. The Nuun shows that to be bound to the Creator’s will, not our own personal egoistic way, we must bend above and below. Nun shows the relationship between the body, which is impermanent, and the soul, which never dies. It can teach us about the nature of time and space.
Nun also represents flow, teaching us to be supple and flexible like the fish instead of resisting change. If we can be aware of the inner guide, the Neshama, we need never fear because the Creator is always present with us.


The 2nd letter is פ

פ[Peh]
Peh means;

The Hebrew letter Peh means mouth and refers to the power of speech. In Kabbalah, speech is actually considered to be a spiritual power, which can cause good or evil depending on how it is used. In a certain way, what one thinks is how one is, and what one speaks has the power to become. Violent words lead to violent actions. The quality of the speech is considered to be the quality of the life’s essence and creative existence. The Peh teaches us to view our words as precious as gold, not to be spilled haphazardly.
The shape of the Peh is a Khaf with a Yod inside of it. This represents the spiritual spark of the Neshama soul, contained inside the physical body. With words and silence we can communicate the essence of our soul and existence. This requires that the inner and outer life match – that the physical existence is fully aligned manifesting the spiritual intentions of the soul within it. As it says in the Talmud Baba Metsiah “Don’t say one thing with the mouth and another with the heart.” The Yod is also the Nekudah SheBaLev, the point in the heart which spiritual awakening begins from. However, alignment of the physical with the spiritual level is no easy task. The normal balance of a human life is perhaps 1% or less spiritual and 99% physical, but the kabbalists say that right balance between these two would actually be the reverse.
The power of the Peh is a double-edged sword. As it says in Proverbs 18:21 “Life and death are in the hands of the tongue.” Because of this, the Peh represents the requirement to govern one’s own nature. Routine speech, speech to manipulate, all the distortions of speech must give way to viewing speech as a miracle, as gold too precious to be spilled. Then speech can be used for its true purpose – to speak one’s destiny and to activate spirit through the thoughts and the speech.


The third letter is ש

ש [Shin]
Shin means;
Shin, the 21st Hebrew letter is the letter of fire and transformation. Shin literally means tooth and its shape is 3 branches of flame. These are the 3 pillars of the tree of life, reaching high like flames, purifying and changing the condition of our lives, teaching us to become aligned with the Whole of Creation. It also represents the right and left extreme opposites and the requirement to balance them by following the central pillar, the middle way.
Both the tooth and fire meanings of Shin refer to it as a process of transformation, breaking down, grinding into particles, building anew, cooking, the firing of a clay pot into a form. The whole process of transformation, healing, breaking and restoring. The fire also represents the unchangeable, the unmovable, and thus is a symbol of divine power. The spirit constantly transforms the matter, yet remains unchanged itself. Matter changes constantly, yet the spirit within does not change, so all of life is a process of learning to align with that unchangeable essence. Shin is the flame of the spirit, which we must keep always burning within us.
Finally, the Shin teaches us balance. It is composed of 3 Vavs, the 3 pillars of the tree of life. The right pillar is of kindness and mercy, the left of strict justice and truth. The world cannot continue without both, so we must balance between the two. In all aspects of life, we must find the middle way between the opposites and extremes.


This information above is the overall impression the Mystics have re The Soul...it isn't only an interface with The Mind Behind Creation. t is not considered to be a growth of something created [emergent] from the body.

[Miles]

test for inclusion

[JehovahsWitness]

Okay

"A zygote is a soul"

No, a zygote is ...

"A zygote is a eukaryotic cell [singular] formed by a fertilization event between two gametes."
source: wikipedia

"zygote, fertilized egg cell [singular] that results from the union of a female gamete (egg, or ovum) with a male gamete (sperm).
source: Encyclopedia Britannica

"A zygote is the first diploid cell [singular] that is formed by the fusion of male and female gametes resulting in the formation of an embryo."
source: byjus.com/biology

....they [diploid cells] come into existence at the moment of conception. The question was where do souls come from. My anwser was from their parents since all people's lives begin as a zygote.





JEHOVAHS WITNESS

[nobspeople]

Recently heard someone tell their story about their dad. Her dad was going to die before his first grandchild was born. He was sad. His daughter told him that, if he dies before the grandchild is born, to 'go visit him in heaven' before the child is born.

It made me wonder: where do souls come from? Are all souls 'shelved' in heaven somewhere, just waiting for their vessel?

I've always thought that this is the canon, yes, and that every possible soul exists. This is the result of me doing some thinking about why God creates so many evil people. I don't think he does. I think they have always been there, as potential, and that only by allowing each and every one of them to experience life can they be fairly sorted.

In other words, the physical universe is one big "good engine" designed to purge the greater potential existence of anything evil. All potentials are fed through the physical universe and then the bad eggs get kicked out of physical existence and tossed into the cosmic rubbish bin. This not only answers the problem of evil (that it exists as potential and nobody, even the omnipotent, can do anything about that except for exactly what it is doing about that), but it also answers the problems of Hell (that potential has to go somewhere) and of suffering (we're in a sorting engine).

Evil, though, is only assigned to (at this time) humanity. In other words, evil only exists as described by humanity and only TO humanity (there's no evil storms or animal or rocks - evil is a 'human thing'). To think the universe is purging 'evil' would seem to indicate that the universe is focused only on humanity, which seems to be a minority of a vast universe.
Again, at this time. There may be vast amounts of intelligent being in the universe that have 'evil'. Though, I'd suspect, what's evil to one may not be to another.

[nobspeople]

It made me wonder: where do souls come from?

Provide proof that made you form your opinion.

In my opinion souls* come from their parents; ie. They come into existence at the moment of conception.

"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception). "Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being." - Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2

* a soul being a flesh and blood physical person or animal




JW




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SOULS, SPIRIT and ... THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD

So humans create the soul, not any deity?

[Miles]

Okay

"A zygote is a soul"

No, a zygote is ...

"A zygote is a eukaryotic cell [singular] formed by a fertilization event between two gametes."
source: wikipedia

"zygote, fertilized egg cell [singular] that results from the union of a female gamete (egg, or ovum) with a male gamete (sperm).
source: Encyclopedia Britannica

"A zygote is the first diploid cell [singular] that is formed by the fusion of male and female gametes resulting in the formation of an embryo."
source: byjus.com/biology

....they [diploid cells] come into existence at the moment of conception.

Yup, and they're called "zygotes."

"In human fertilization, a released ovum (a haploid secondary oocyte with replicate chromosome copies) and a haploid sperm cell (male gamete)—combine to form a single 2n diploid cell [singular] called the zygote."
source: Wikipedia

The question was where do souls come from. My anwser was from their parents since all people's lives begin as a zygote.

And again, and for the last time, you also said:

"In my opinion souls* come from their parents; ie. They come into existence at the moment of conception."

And this "moment of conception" occurs when "a released ovum . . . and a haploid sperm cell . . . . combine to form a single 2n diploid cell called the zygote."



And for extra credit.

"When does the true moment of fertilization occurs? it occurs as the maternal and paternal chromosomes combine and produce the diploid ZYGOTE, or fertilized egg."
source

.

[JehovahsWitness]

And again, and for the last time, you also said:

"In my opinion souls* come from their parents; ie. They come into existence at the moment of conception."

Okay I see where you're coming from I stand corrected. I believe the life starts at conception not the soul. This moment of conception" occurs when "a released ovum . . . and a haploid sperm cell . . . . combine to form a single 2n diploid cell called the zygote." Please ignore my first comment. The above will develop into a living breathing person (ie a soul).


Sorry about that.

JW

[William]

Recently heard someone tell their story about their dad. Her dad was going to die before his first grandchild was born. He was sad. His daughter told him that, if he dies before the grandchild is born, to 'go visit him in heaven' before the child is born.

It made me wonder: where do souls come from? Are all souls 'shelved' in heaven somewhere, just waiting for their vessel?

I've always thought that this is the canon, yes, and that every possible soul exists. This is the result of me doing some thinking about why God creates so many evil people. I don't think he does. I think they have always been there, as potential, and that only by allowing each and every one of them to experience life can they be fairly sorted.

"Souls" are an aspect of "The Creator Spirit" attached to a lifeform for the specific purpose of experience and creation/development of Personalities.
As such, from the subjective perspective of The Creator Spirit - although individualized for said purpose, they "come from the same dough" as it were...and this dough is seen as "One Soul" rather than many "souls".
[Biblically - that 'One Soul" has been identified as "The Christ".]

It is the interaction between physical experience and the Soul which creates "Persons" - personas
which can interact in particular ways with the stage setting - ways in which other animals appear not to be able to interact.

The human body is also part of the stage setting, and the task of The Soul is to hook up with and convince the Persona to understand that he/she/it can become an aspect of The Soul, rather than simply identify with being part of the props.

In other words, the physical universe is one big "good engine" designed to purge the greater potential existence of anything evil. All potentials are fed through the physical universe and then the bad eggs get kicked out of physical existence and tossed into the cosmic rubbish bin. This not only answers the problem of evil (that it exists as potential and nobody, even the omnipotent, can do anything about that except for exactly what it is doing about that), but it also answers the problems of Hell (that potential has to go somewhere) and of suffering (we're in a sorting engine).

The "sorting engine" is the overall prop in the stage set. The parts of the engine contribute to the sorting process.
The Soul is better thought of as a container for the persona and if that persona doesn't make the grade, the container is emptied and repurposed, while the persona is lost to time and memory.

It is something of a giant project - a game of sorts, but in the serious sense.

Biblical speaking, The Creator [The Father] creates a Son {Let there be light} and when it is said that "God is Light" it is referring to The Son, not The Father [the creation not the creator]. This because, otherwise we have to accept that God created God/The Creator Created Itself/The Father created Himself. {et al}

The Father gave The Son the power to Create the physical universe and to use it as he willed. Even so, The Son [and by association, the creation] is subject to The Father. This, because the duty of The Son is to faithfully reflect The Father

The question which arises is "Why - specifically - did The Son create the physical universe in the manner that he did"? Was it a faithful reflection of The Father?

Said question also has to be asked in the understanding that the Physical Universe hasn't been created complete, but is in the perpetual motion of "becoming".

[Purple Knight]

Evil, though, is only assigned to (at this time) humanity. In other words, evil only exists as described by humanity and only TO humanity (there's no evil storms or animal or rocks - evil is a 'human thing'). To think the universe is purging 'evil' would seem to indicate that the universe is focused only on humanity, which seems to be a minority of a vast universe.

If I'm right, the evil potentials (which exist, every potential exists) only go to human bodies to gain reality so this would make perfect sense. God doesn't like that evil exists as potential, so he transforms that evil "soul" - i.e. potential - into reality by putting it in a human. (Or, an alien. Maybe.)

[William]

Evil, though, is only assigned to (at this time) humanity. In other words, evil only exists as described by humanity and only TO humanity (there's no evil storms or animal or rocks - evil is a 'human thing'). To think the universe is purging 'evil' would seem to indicate that the universe is focused only on humanity, which seems to be a minority of a vast universe.

If I'm right, the evil potentials (which exist, every potential exists) only go to human bodies to gain reality so this would make perfect sense. God doesn't like that evil exists as potential, so he transforms that evil "soul" - i.e. potential - into reality by putting it in a human. (Or, an alien. Maybe.)

Did you explain where the so-called "evil" souls originated?