Where do souls come from?

[nobspeople]

Recently heard someone tell their story about their dad. Her dad was going to die before his first grandchild was born. He was sad. His daughter told him that, if he dies before the grandchild is born, to 'go visit him in heaven' before the child is born.

It made me wonder: where do souls come from? Are all souls 'shelved' in heaven somewhere, just waiting for their vessel? Or are they each created at the moment of conception?

Provide proof that made you form your opinion.

[Miles]

In my opinion souls* come from their parents; ie. They come into existence at the moment of conception.

"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception). "Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being." - Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2

* a soul being a flesh and blood physical person or animal

Then obviously you believe a zygote

...............................

has a soul.

No I do not. You are wrong about what I believe.

Well, let's see. You said

"In my opinion souls* come from their parents; ie. They come into existence at the moment of conception."

and your very own information source says:

"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception). "Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being." - Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2

So where have I gone wrong?


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[TRANSPONDER]

It seems we have the old equivocation problem. A Soul is an epithet for a flesh and blood human being and one can say a Zygote is where it starts. However a soul can also mean an invisible and impalpable (and unproven) life and character entity that is or becomes part of the human being. That is a not the same as the human being itself, and pointing to the zygote is not the same as pointing to souls in the second sense (a spirit). Knowing of the reality one does not validate the claim of the existence of the other.

[Tcg]

In my opinion souls* come from their parents; ie. They come into existence at the moment of conception.

"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception). "Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being." - Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2

* a soul being a flesh and blood physical person or animal

Then obviously you believe a zygote

...............................

has a soul.

No I do not. You are wrong about what I believe.

Well, let's see. You said

"In my opinion souls* come from their parents; ie. They come into existence at the moment of conception."

and your very own information source says:

"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception). "Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being." - Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2

So where have I gone wrong?


.

We're left with a bit of a guessing game it seems. My guess is that JW would say that a zygote is a soul rather than a zygote has a soul.

What Is the Soul?

The word “soul” in the Bible is a translation of the Hebrew word neʹphesh and the Greek word psy·kheʹ. The Hebrew word literally means “a creature that breathes,” and the Greek word means “a living being.” * The soul, then, is the entire creature, not something inside that survives the death of the body. Consider how the Bible shows that the human soul is the whole person:

When Jehovah God created the first man, Adam, the Bible says that “man became a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7, King James Version) Adam was not given a soul​—he became a living soul, or person.

The Bible says that the soul can work, crave food, eat, obey laws, and touch a dead body. (Leviticus 5:2; 7:​20; 23:30; Deuteronomy 12:20; Romans 13:1) Those activities involve the entire person.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... is-a-soul/

[Miles]

In my opinion souls* come from their parents; ie. They come into existence at the moment of conception.

"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception). "Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being." - Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2

* a soul being a flesh and blood physical person or animal

Then obviously you believe a zygote

...............................

has a soul.

No I do not. You are wrong about what I believe.

Well, let's see. You said

"In my opinion souls* come from their parents; ie. They come into existence at the moment of conception."

and your very own information source says:

"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception). "Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being." - Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2

So where have I gone wrong?


.

We're left with a bit of a guessing game it seems. My guess is that JW would say that a zygote is a soul rather than a zygote has a soul.

What Is the Soul?

The word “soul” in the Bible is a translation of the Hebrew word neʹphesh and the Greek word psy·kheʹ. The Hebrew word literally means “a creature that breathes,” and the Greek word means “a living being.” * The soul, then, is the entire creature, not something inside that survives the death of the body. Consider how the Bible shows that the human soul is the whole person:

When Jehovah God created the first man, Adam, the Bible says that “man became a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7, King James Version) Adam was not given a soul​—he became a living soul, or person.

The Bible says that the soul can work, crave food, eat, obey laws, and touch a dead body. (Leviticus 5:2; 7:​20; 23:30; Deuteronomy 12:20; Romans 13:1) Those activities involve the entire person.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... is-a-soul/

Then I would assume all creatures have (are?) souls, from the lowly earwig to humans. And in as much as JWs say the soul is "the whole person" and neither zygotes nor fetuses qualify as whole persons, they wouldn't have/be souls. Of course, if fetuses are souls and zygotes are not, as I'm guessing JW would now claim, then the question is: at what point in development does an embryo/fetus attain, or become, a soul? AND how has this been determined?


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[Diagoras]

I don't often follow the links to the Jehovah’s Witnesses' website but on this occasion, it proved quite instructive. I didn't know that they believed a soul is really just another word for an alive person or animal, and further believed that there's no seperate 'immortal soul'.

If a zygote can be called 'alive' (which would fit with most people's definition, regardless of religious belief), then it is a soul - it doesn't have one.

I've no problem with using the word 'soul' as a synonym for 'alive person', and so for this debate, the question becomes one that hopefully we all learnt the answer to at school.

[Tcg]

I don't often follow the links to the Jehovah’s Witnesses' website but on this occasion, it proved quite instructive. I didn't know that they believed a soul is really just another word for an alive person or animal, and further believed that there's no seperate 'immortal soul'.

If a zygote can be called 'alive' (which would fit with most people's definition, regardless of religious belief), then it is a soul - it doesn't have one.

I've no problem with using the word 'soul' as a synonym for 'alive person', and so for this debate, the question becomes one that hopefully we all learnt the answer to at school.

This usage would match the nautical term to describe how many people are on board a ship. "Fourteen souls on board", for instance. That usage is also part of standard terminology in Air Traffic Control operations used to ask how many people are onboard an aircraft. Neither of course refer to some non-physical aspect of humans.


Tcg

[JehovahsWitness]

So where have I gone wrong?

....with the verb.

Then obviously you believe a zygote has a soul.

* a soul being a flesh and blood physical person or animal

JW

[Miles]

So where have I gone wrong?

....with the verb.

Then obviously you believe a zygote has a soul.

Then should I assume the correct verb is is?

"A zygote is a soul" because:

"In my opinion souls* come from their parents; ie. They come into existence at the moment of conception."

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[JehovahsWitness]

"A zygote is a soul"

No a zygote is a cluster of cells. The question was where do souls come from. My anwser was from their parents. All people begin their lives as a single fertilized cell.


JW

[Miles]

"A zygote is a soul"

No a zygote is a cluster of cells.

Sorry, but science disagrees

"A zygote is a eukaryotic cell [singular] formed by a fertilization event between two gametes."
source: wikipedia

"zygote, fertilized egg cell [singular] that results from the union of a female gamete (egg, or ovum) with a male gamete (sperm).
source: Encyclopedia Britannica

"A zygote is the first diploid cell [singular] that is formed by the fusion of male and female gametes resulting in the formation of an embryo."
source: byjus.com/biology

Besides it's irrelevant how the zygote is constructed because it never came into consideration when you claimed

"In my opinion souls* come from their parents; ie. They come into existence at the moment of conception."

The question was where do souls come from. My anwser was from their parents. All people begin their lives as a single fertilized cell.

Yup, AND that they come into existence at the moment of conception.



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