Chariot Wheels in the Red Sea?

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8487
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Chariot Wheels in the Red Sea?

Post #1

Post by Tcg »

.
Many years ago I was explaining to my young son that some scholars believe that the Israelites crossed the Reed Sea, also known as the Gulf of Aqaba, rather than the Red sea. He questioned that idea by explaining that chariot wheels had been found in the Red Sea. He had been taught this at a Baptist church he was attending with his mother. There are indeed photos that reportedly support this claim:

Image

Image

According to some reports the exodus happened around 1400 B.C.

Is it reasonable to conclude that these artifacts could survive +/- 3400 years submerged in the Red Sea?


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

TRANSPONDER
Savant
Posts: 7960
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:05 am
Has thanked: 932 times
Been thanked: 3487 times

Re: Chariot Wheels in the Red Sea?

Post #11

Post by TRANSPONDER »

nobspeople wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:00 am
Tcg wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:44 pm .
Many years ago I was explaining to my young son that some scholars believe that the Israelites crossed the Reed Sea, also known as the Gulf of Aqaba, rather than the Red sea. He questioned that idea by explaining that chariot wheels had been found in the Red Sea. He had been taught this at a Baptist church he was attending with his mother. There are indeed photos that reportedly support this claim:

Image

Image

According to some reports the exodus happened around 1400 B.C.

Is it reasonable to conclude that these artifacts could survive +/- 3400 years submerged in the Red Sea?


Tcg
Probably would depend on what the material was and the acidity of the water, among other things.
Having Baptist members in my family, they seem to believe anything they're shown and told by any religious authoritative figure, even if they're told something after learning it's not possible. I assume it has something to do with the need to be 'right' and belittle others if given the chance (at least that's my experience). I say that to say that it's not surprising something like this would be shown as 'proof' by that group of people.
The bigger issue here is, IMO, how one can take a photo with little to no context and 'show' it to prove their point (which isn't only a Baptist-thing to be honest). But you can't challenge faith with some people - even if they know they're wrong.

We do of course have the chariot from Tutanhkamen's tomb. New kingdom like the date of the Exodus, supposedly. It is made of wood. Cedar, one source said, which is one of the more resistant of woods. The survival as coral has its' problems but (even given that wood can be preserved under water) that new -looking wheel poking out of the sand really isn't credible. While I'm here, I might mention the Wyatt claims. Pillars at the Red sea crossing bordering on Saudi Arabia as it was argued that the one on the Saudi side with the Solomonic inscription had been removed, for some unclear reason. Wyatt had a translation of the script but not a copy of it, let alone a photo. He did have a column on the West side with no trace of inscription. all very fishy. He also claimed the existence of a sunken land-bridge/ford, but I couldn't check that claim. He claimed Jebl Laws as the mountain of the Moses -camp with groups of stones marking the boundary - but it wasn't clear whether the line was supposed to be straight or curved. There was a 'cleft' rock with supposed marks of a stream but after all that time? I'd guess it was the wind blowing through the crack in the rock and making the 'stream' mark. And (apart from the claim the mountain top was still blackened from smoke) there was a pile of boulders with a carving of a bull. But this was selected and cropped to exclude carvings of other animals.

This is all very arguable and much relies on checking the claims which isn't easy for a atheist apologist without resources to do. It cost me an arm and leg just to go and look at the Ta phrom stegosaur.

nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 824 times

Re: Chariot Wheels in the Red Sea?

Post #12

Post by nobspeople »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:36 pm
nobspeople wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:00 am
Tcg wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:44 pm .
Many years ago I was explaining to my young son that some scholars believe that the Israelites crossed the Reed Sea, also known as the Gulf of Aqaba, rather than the Red sea. He questioned that idea by explaining that chariot wheels had been found in the Red Sea. He had been taught this at a Baptist church he was attending with his mother. There are indeed photos that reportedly support this claim:

Image

Image

According to some reports the exodus happened around 1400 B.C.

Is it reasonable to conclude that these artifacts could survive +/- 3400 years submerged in the Red Sea?


Tcg
Probably would depend on what the material was and the acidity of the water, among other things.
Having Baptist members in my family, they seem to believe anything they're shown and told by any religious authoritative figure, even if they're told something after learning it's not possible. I assume it has something to do with the need to be 'right' and belittle others if given the chance (at least that's my experience). I say that to say that it's not surprising something like this would be shown as 'proof' by that group of people.
The bigger issue here is, IMO, how one can take a photo with little to no context and 'show' it to prove their point (which isn't only a Baptist-thing to be honest). But you can't challenge faith with some people - even if they know they're wrong.

We do of course have the chariot from Tutanhkamen's tomb. New kingdom like the date of the Exodus, supposedly. It is made of wood. Cedar, one source said, which is one of the more resistant of woods. The survival as coral has its' problems but (even given that wood can be preserved under water) that new -looking wheel poking out of the sand really isn't credible. While I'm here, I might mention the Wyatt claims. Pillars at the Red sea crossing bordering on Saudi Arabia as it was argued that the one on the Saudi side with the Solomonic inscription had been removed, for some unclear reason. Wyatt had a translation of the script but not a copy of it, let alone a photo. He did have a column on the West side with no trace of inscription. all very fishy. He also claimed the existence of a sunken land-bridge/ford, but I couldn't check that claim. He claimed Jebl Laws as the mountain of the Moses -camp with groups of stones marking the boundary - but it wasn't clear whether the line was supposed to be straight or curved. There was a 'cleft' rock with supposed marks of a stream but after all that time? I'd guess it was the wind blowing through the crack in the rock and making the 'stream' mark. And (apart from the claim the mountain top was still blackened from smoke) there was a pile of boulders with a carving of a bull. But this was selected and cropped to exclude carvings of other animals.

This is all very arguable and much relies on checking the claims which isn't easy for a atheist apologist without resources to do. It cost me an arm and leg just to go and look at the Ta phrom stegosaur.
And the more time that progresses that causes due diligence to be more difficult in researching such claims only (wrongfully) strengthens the believer's ability to 'be just' in their belief in a smugness that's not unknown to most of us.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

TRANSPONDER
Savant
Posts: 7960
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:05 am
Has thanked: 932 times
Been thanked: 3487 times

Re: Chariot Wheels in the Red Sea?

Post #13

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Not always. Saudi Arabia was a fairly safe haven for Faith -claims in Wyatt's time, but now they are making an effort to open up for tourism. So that boundary line could be checked ('m betting there's a lot of scree about and they just used the eye of Faith). We have photos of the 'calf -altar' without even going there. The land bridge can be checked even today with satellite Lidar. 'Oh..it was washed away by God to test our Faith'. And probably Atheist scientists could obtain a coral chariot wheel for study.

"It's all solid coral'

"Well, maybe the coral ate the wooden wheel away".

Post Reply