Some claim that Genesis 1 describes the creation of the universe and yet an examination of the text reveals that the author doesn't have any concept of planets other than the earth. Beyond that, the author doesn't even understand that the earth is a planet. This is an example of Ancient Hebrew concept of cosmology:
Why do some claim that Genesis 1 describes the universe when the author shows no knowledge of our solar system much less the universe?
Tcg
Does Genesis 1 describe the Universe?
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Does Genesis 1 describe the Universe?
Post #1To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
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Re: Does Genesis 1 describe the Universe?
Post #2[Replying to Tcg in post #1]
Because it fits their need. There's really no other reason that would make sense. But I'm sure a believer will preform linguistic gymnastics to make it 'show' it's talking about 'the universe' and 'planets' and the like. After all, the world is less than 10K years oldWhy do some claim that Genesis 1 describes the universe when the author shows no knowledge of our solar system much less the universe?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
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Re: Does Genesis 1 describe the Universe?
Post #3Bishop Ussher dates the creation of the world to Sunday 23 October 4004 BC. That gives us about 6,000 years. Of course that reveals yet another misunderstanding of cosmology.nobspeople wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:56 pm [Replying to Tcg in post #1]
Because it fits their need. There's really no other reason that would make sense. But I'm sure a believer will preform linguistic gymnastics to make it 'show' it's talking about 'the universe' and 'planets' and the like. After all, the world is less than 10K years oldWhy do some claim that Genesis 1 describes the universe when the author shows no knowledge of our solar system much less the universe?
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Re: Does Genesis 1 describe the Universe?
Post #4Oh Bisshy Ussher.... What a crack up!Tcg wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:06 pmBishop Ussher dates the creation of the world to Sunday 23 October 4004 BC. That gives us about 6,000 years. Of course that reveals yet another misunderstanding of cosmology.nobspeople wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:56 pm [Replying to Tcg in post #1]
Because it fits their need. There's really no other reason that would make sense. But I'm sure a believer will preform linguistic gymnastics to make it 'show' it's talking about 'the universe' and 'planets' and the like. After all, the world is less than 10K years oldWhy do some claim that Genesis 1 describes the universe when the author shows no knowledge of our solar system much less the universe?
Tcg
These people can't even all agree on their own religion so why people want to think them experts at other things is a mystery, really. But hey: if it make someone sleep better at night I guess that's all that matters...?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
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Re: Does Genesis 1 describe the Universe?
Post #5Yes. He begat so and so and then so and so begat so and so. If we add it all up, walla, 4004 BC.nobspeople wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:12 pmOh Bisshy Ussher.... What a crack up!Tcg wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:06 pmBishop Ussher dates the creation of the world to Sunday 23 October 4004 BC. That gives us about 6,000 years. Of course that reveals yet another misunderstanding of cosmology.nobspeople wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:56 pm [Replying to Tcg in post #1]
Because it fits their need. There's really no other reason that would make sense. But I'm sure a believer will preform linguistic gymnastics to make it 'show' it's talking about 'the universe' and 'planets' and the like. After all, the world is less than 10K years oldWhy do some claim that Genesis 1 describes the universe when the author shows no knowledge of our solar system much less the universe?
Tcg
These people can't even all agree on their own religion so why people want to think them experts at other things is a mystery, really. But hey: if it make someone sleep better at night I guess that's all that matters...?
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Re: Does Genesis 1 describe the Universe?
Post #6We must understand the limits of the information at the time. He did the best with the limited information he had at the time, just as geographers did in the 14th c. or Geologists and biologists did before Darwin. No doubt in a few centuries from now (1) we (humung beans) will look back and laugh..."the poor saps had no idea" the whole thing was an alien computer - simulation. 'They coped with ASida - let's see how they cope with....This...nobspeople wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:12 pmOh Bisshy Ussher.... What a crack up!Tcg wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:06 pmBishop Ussher dates the creation of the world to Sunday 23 October 4004 BC. That gives us about 6,000 years. Of course that reveals yet another misunderstanding of cosmology.nobspeople wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:56 pm [Replying to Tcg in post #1]
Because it fits their need. There's really no other reason that would make sense. But I'm sure a believer will preform linguistic gymnastics to make it 'show' it's talking about 'the universe' and 'planets' and the like. After all, the world is less than 10K years oldWhy do some claim that Genesis 1 describes the universe when the author shows no knowledge of our solar system much less the universe?
Tcg
These people can't even all agree on their own religion so why people want to think them experts at other things is a mystery, really. But hey: if it make someone sleep better at night I guess that's all that matters...?
(1) Yes, folks, we'll be ok. I guarantee it. Sorry, no moneys back in case of non -delivery.
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Re: Does Genesis 1 describe the Universe?
Post #7Oh, I agree, but if God were behind the story we'd expect a bit more accuracy. Of course if no god/s were involved, we'd expect just what we have.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:27 pmWe must understand the limits of the information at the time. He did the best with the limited information he had at the time, just as geographers did in the 14th c. or Geologists and biologists did before Darwin. No doubt in a few centuries from now (1) we (humung beans) will look back and laugh..."the poor saps had no idea" the whole thing was an alien computer - simulation. 'They coped with ASida - let's see how they cope with....This...nobspeople wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:12 pmOh Bisshy Ussher.... What a crack up!Tcg wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:06 pmBishop Ussher dates the creation of the world to Sunday 23 October 4004 BC. That gives us about 6,000 years. Of course that reveals yet another misunderstanding of cosmology.nobspeople wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:56 pm [Replying to Tcg in post #1]
Because it fits their need. There's really no other reason that would make sense. But I'm sure a believer will preform linguistic gymnastics to make it 'show' it's talking about 'the universe' and 'planets' and the like. After all, the world is less than 10K years oldWhy do some claim that Genesis 1 describes the universe when the author shows no knowledge of our solar system much less the universe?
Tcg
These people can't even all agree on their own religion so why people want to think them experts at other things is a mystery, really. But hey: if it make someone sleep better at night I guess that's all that matters...?
(1) Yes, folks, we'll be ok. I guarantee it. Sorry, no moneys back in case of non -delivery.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Re: Does Genesis 1 describe the Universe?
Post #8I can't speak for why some people claim what they do. But just because some people claim it doesn't mean we should discredit the text if it doesn't deliver. Maybe it just wasn't of interest to the writer, known, or vital to the point being made. Maybe the claimant is wrong.
We should look at what the text says and judge accordingly. And in Genesis 1 what we see (in Genesis 1:2) is that the earth was formless and empty, and that darkness covered the face of the deep.
That's the first description we have of a starting point. And it strikes me as an image of something like Mars, should we go there today, if we wanted a real comparison. i.e., the writer is telling us that the earth was a barren wasteland unsuitable for life.
The unfolding story goes on to show how God worked to make the earth more hospitable. So it's more a story of terraforming than it is universe creation. Now granted, it is an ancient view of terraforming and surely wouldn't hold up to even our basic science on the topic. But that too is beside the point. The point (IMO) is to show the reader what kind of god God is. It is not to accurately detail out a scientific process (or the structure of the universe for that matter).
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Re: Does Genesis 1 describe the Universe?
Post #9None of this addresses the fact that Genesis 1 does not describe the universe.theophile wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:04 pmI can't speak for why some people claim what they do. But just because some people claim it doesn't mean we should discredit the text if it doesn't deliver. Maybe it just wasn't of interest to the writer, known, or vital to the point being made. Maybe the claimant is wrong.
We should look at what the text says and judge accordingly. And in Genesis 1 what we see (in Genesis 1:2) is that the earth was formless and empty, and that darkness covered the face of the deep.
That's the first description we have of a starting point. And it strikes me as an image of something like Mars, should we go there today, if we wanted a real comparison. i.e., the writer is telling us that the earth was a barren wasteland unsuitable for life.
The unfolding story goes on to show how God worked to make the earth more hospitable. So it's more a story of terraforming than it is universe creation. Now granted, it is an ancient view of terraforming and surely wouldn't hold up to even our basic science on the topic. But that too is beside the point. The point (IMO) is to show the reader what kind of god God is. It is not to accurately detail out a scientific process (or the structure of the universe for that matter).
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Re: Does Genesis 1 describe the Universe?
Post #10But if it is not based on the truth it doesn't show us anything about God at all. It just shows us how early people imagined that it all began. No God necessary.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.