Proper Dinner Guests?

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Tcg
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Proper Dinner Guests?

Post #1

Post by Tcg »

.
While Jesus was dining at the house of a ruler of the Pharisees, Jesus reportedly gave this lesson:
Luke 4:12 He said also to the man who had invited him, “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. 13 But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”
Of course many churches and other groups do an honorable job of feeding the poor and the homeless. This activity usually occurs in church basements or outside. This instruction, however, refers to when one is having their own dinner presumable at their own home.

Are friends, relatives or rich neighbors proper dinner guests?

Are followers of Jesus expected to do this today or is it one of those things like the "Rich Young Ruler" being told to sell his possessions and give to the poor which some suggest is no longer necessary?


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Proper Dinner Guests?

Post #2

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Tcg wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:45 pm
Are friends, relatives or rich neighbors proper dinner guests?
Yes I believe it is appropriate to invite friends to dinner. I also believe relatives or rich neighbors can also be proper dinner guests.

Jesus was trying to teach a point about religious elitism rather than dinner etiquette. In short, although the basic point of not being predjudice and avoiding judging people by their outward appearance is valid, his point was really about the deplorable conduct of the religious leaders who excluded the working classes from having access to spiritual food (godly instruction).
Tcg wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:45 pm Are followers of Jesus expected to do this today ...?
Behave the way Jesus wanted them to? Yes, he sent his disciples to teach anyone that would listen, regardless of their social status.
Tcg wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:45 pm ... is it one of those things like the "Rich Young Ruler" being told to sell his possessions and give to the poor which some suggest is no longer necessary?

Everything Jesus taught is necessary for Christian worship although it is not necessary to accept what atheists, antibiblists and the infidel tell us Jesus was teaching. In short, if an infidel tells us "this is what Jesus meant" we do not have to believe they are correct.


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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Proper Dinner Guests?

Post #3

Post by nobspeople »

Tcg wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:45 pm .
While Jesus was dining at the house of a ruler of the Pharisees, Jesus reportedly gave this lesson:
Luke 4:12 He said also to the man who had invited him, “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. 13 But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”
Of course many churches and other groups do an honorable job of feeding the poor and the homeless. This activity usually occurs in church basements or outside. This instruction, however, refers to when one is having their own dinner presumable at there own home.

Are friends, relatives or rich neighbors proper dinner guests?

Are followers of Jesus expected to do this today or is it one of those things like the "Rich Young Ruler" being told to sell his possessions and give to the poor which some suggest is no longer necessary?


Tcg
As with things 'biblical', I'm not sure they should be taken literally as a literal message. I see it as a teaching moment, not a guest list.
When we take biblical things literal, it opens the doors for a lot of issues. Which is one reason, IMO, we see so much distrust, turmoil and fracturing of christianity.
Why?
Because people be stoopid, generally.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Proper Dinner Guests?

Post #4

Post by TRANSPONDER »

I love it when a question like this develops many layer.

On the face of it, it's a reasonable point - Jesus talks of not spending your money entertaining friends or relatives who will just invite you in return and what merit does that get you?

Rather spend it on those who can't pay you back and you don't expect them to.

Already we see the more general point about charity here and in this case the 'Oh- it's metaphorical' explanation would seem to be a fair one.

But there's also a point or warning about the elite group, the in - crowd and the cult. Don't just hob -nob with those who remind you of what you see in the shaving -mirror. Be outgoing and part of the world.

Possibly.

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Re: Proper Dinner Guests?

Post #5

Post by nobspeople »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:43 am I love it when a question like this develops many layer.

On the face of it, it's a reasonable point - Jesus talks of not spending your money entertaining friends or relatives who will just invite you in return and what merit does that get you?

Rather spend it on those who can't pay you back and you don't expect them to.

Already we see the more general point about charity here and in this case the 'Oh- it's metaphorical' explanation would seem to be a fair one.

But there's also a point or warning about the elite group, the in - crowd and the cult. Don't just hob -nob with those who remind you of what you see in the shaving -mirror. Be outgoing and part of the world.

Possibly.
That's a good point. However, I don't think it's 'universal' towards everyone. In other words, what's good for one might not be for another.
"...not spending your money entertaining friends or relatives who will just invite you in return and what merit does that get you?" This quote made me think that it may not get you anything. Or very little. Or a good bit. Or everything.
And why does it have to 'get you' anything at all? Why not just sit back and enjoy?

I get the point you're making - and I agree in spirit. But it's not as if everyone that indulges* in things with friends and family never get anything out of it. Likewise, it's not as if everyone that does the opposite gets 'bliss'* or the like (*my descriptions of course, not yours).

So often the bible is totally one way or totally to other way when, in fact, life is often 'in the middle'. Living on the extremes of either side is, to me, unfulfilling and, perhaps, harmful to ones' self.

Moderation, along with thinking and not blind following, is, IMO, the best way to live. Unfortunately, christianity (or at the very least, some/many christians) want blind faith and robotic computing en mass, instead of individual thinking. For those people (or belief system) I'm sure the extremes seem valid. I feel bad for those people, on a very small level.
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Re: Proper Dinner Guests?

Post #6

Post by TRANSPONDER »

I suppose there are two elements here (just taking it as social commentary and putting aside the Christian agenda about 'disown your family - join the People who are not your People'). Spending time with friends and spending money on the needy really. They are really different things for different purposes. It's all fine and good for religious charities to put bums on seats with no thought of reward, but there's no peddling of the religion? Really? Now I (and whom can I speak for other than me?) do get a few things for the foodbank when I visit the supermart to buy my weekly tin of gruel. I never met the people who go to the foodbank and pick the tins up, and I don't need to.

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Re: Proper Dinner Guests?

Post #7

Post by Tcg »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:33 am
Tcg wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:45 pm .
While Jesus was dining at the house of a ruler of the Pharisees, Jesus reportedly gave this lesson:
Luke 4:12 He said also to the man who had invited him, “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. 13 But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”
Of course many churches and other groups do an honorable job of feeding the poor and the homeless. This activity usually occurs in church basements or outside. This instruction, however, refers to when one is having their own dinner presumable at there own home.

Are friends, relatives or rich neighbors proper dinner guests?

Are followers of Jesus expected to do this today or is it one of those things like the "Rich Young Ruler" being told to sell his possessions and give to the poor which some suggest is no longer necessary?


Tcg
As with things 'biblical', I'm not sure they should be taken literally as a literal message. I see it as a teaching moment, not a guest list.
When we take biblical things literal, it opens the doors for a lot of issues. Which is one reason, IMO, we see so much distrust, turmoil and fracturing of christianity.
Why?
Because people be stoopid, generally.
How far should one take it in this case? Consider the last phrase from this quote, "For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.” Should this be considered a claim concerning a literal event and a literal reward?


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Proper Dinner Guests?

Post #8

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Now that's a very pertinent point. It's uncannily similar to 'are you doing this to please God?' To which some apologists in the past have indignantly denied this and asserted that they are doing it because it's the Right Thing to do. To which, of course, Atheism staples in the last nail of the coffin for the Morality argument: "Well, that just what atheists do, too".

So here even though the Biblebrowser might entertain social refuse to lunch knowing that they won't pay them back, isn't there the idea that 'God is going to reward me for this'? That seems to be what the passage in Luke (his own adaptation of the 'ritual cleanliness passage found in Matthew and Mark) is getting at.

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Re: Proper Dinner Guests?

Post #9

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Tcg wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:58 pm

How far should one take it in this case? Consider the last phrase from this quote, "For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.” Should this be considered a claim concerning a literal event and a literal reward?
Yes. There is no reason to conclude every reference in a fictional account has to be fictional. For example if a character in Harry Porter refered to the city of London are we obliged to conclude London does not exist. That the protagoniste in Jesus illustration refered to a coming divine judgement, no more imposes that event be fictional than if he had refered to God the creator (YHWH).


Why should we conclude the resurrection mentioned in the parable at Luke 14 is an actual event?

Because Jesus referred to the resurrection outside a fictional setting as a literal event on several occasions. Indeed the resurrection of the righteous is a key teaching developed across the Christian writings.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Proper Dinner Guests?

Post #10

Post by TRANSPONDER »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:42 pm
Tcg wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:58 pm

How far should one take it in this case? Consider the last phrase from this quote, "For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.” Should this be considered a claim concerning a literal event and a literal reward?
Yes. There is no reason to conclude every reference in a fictional account has to be fictional. For example if a character in Harry Porter refered to the city of London are we obliged to conclude London does not exist. That the protagoniste in Jesus illustration refered to a coming divine intervention, no more imposes that event be fictional than if he had refered to God the creator (YHWH).
r

On the other hand, just because a Harry Potter character refers to London or China or Bulgaria, which places exist (unless we exist only in some alien computer -game) does not mean that we have to seriously consider whether the world of Hogwarts exists (though nobody could take the Triwizards' tournament as anything but an unfeasible fantasy, surely). I'm nor sure how this relates to the quote (I'll have to look that one up, because even if it's the probably latest gospel, Luke, it's not talking about going to heaven but an earthly afterlife for the resurrected dead when the Messiah comes again) which surely Does refer to a literal expected happening in a literal world of the future and I'm not sure what is supposed to be the Fictional aspect, for all that I think it's all imaginary, even if Samaria really existed.

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