Another Issue With the Flood Story - 120 years.

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Tcg
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Another Issue With the Flood Story - 120 years.

Post #1

Post by Tcg »

.

Genesis 6:3 reads:
Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”
And yet after the flood in Genesis 11 we find these individuals reportedly lived well past 120 years:

Shem: 600 years

Arpachshad: 438 years

Shelah: 433 years

Eber: 464 years

Peleg: 239 years

Reu: 239 years

Serug: 230 years

Nahor: 148 years

Terah: 205 years

How can one account for the reports of such long lives after God's proclamation in Genesis 6?


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Re: Another Issue With the Flood Story - 120 years.

Post #21

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:09 am
Miles wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:56 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:24 am COULD GOD HAVE CHANGED HIS MIND ABOUT DESTORYING EVERYONE IN THE FLOOD?


God had indeed pronounced his intention to destroy everyone except Noah and his family. Biblically however He remained a God that can change his mind If the wicked repent and change their ways.

JEREMIAH 26:2,

“This is what Jehovah says,.... Tell them everything that I command you; do not take away a word. 3 Perhaps they will listen and each one will turn back from his evil way, and I will change my mind concerning the calamity that I intend to bring on them because of their evil deeds.


EZELKIEL 18: 23, 27-28

Do I take any pleasure at all in the death of a wicked person?’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. ‘Do I not prefer that he turn away from his ways and keep living?’ [...] when someone wicked turns away from the wickedness that he has committed and begins to do what is just and righteous, he will preserve his own life.*+ 28 When he realizes and turns away from all the transgressions that he has committed, he will surely keep living. He will not die..



But god didn't change his mind...
No he didnt, which indicates they did not repent of their wickedness. This does not however prove he would not have changed his mind *if* they had.

All of which still remains a moot point---should have, would have, could have---because, in fact, "Every living thing on earth died—every man and woman,"



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Re: Another Issue With the Flood Story - 120 years.

Post #22

Post by 1213 »

Tcg wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:03 pm .

Genesis 6:3 reads:
Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”
And yet after the flood in Genesis 11 we find these individuals reportedly lived well past 120 years:

Shem: 600 years, Arpachshad: 438 years, Shelah: 433 years, Eber: 464 years, Peleg: 239 years, Reu: 239 years, Serug: 230 years, Nahor: 148 years, Terah: 205 years

How can one account for the reports of such long lives after God's proclamation in Genesis 6?
Maybe it meant the men before flood that didn't found favor in Yahweh’s eyes?

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Re: Another Issue With the Flood Story - 120 years.

Post #23

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:07 am
All of which still remains a moot point---should have, would have, could have---because, in fact, "Every living thing on earth died—every man and woman,"
Fair enough; I was just addressing the question whether anybody could have been saved since God had announced his intentions ("I will") to destroy everyone but Noah and his family. Biblically (ie according to the bible canon) the answers is yes. (evidence provided).

If you or anyone is uninterested or believe since it is a hypothetical question it is irrelevant, they can just ignore it and of course not attempt to argue against it.



Carry on,

JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
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Re: Another Issue With the Flood Story - 120 years.

Post #24

Post by Tcg »

1213 wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:20 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:03 pm .

Genesis 6:3 reads:
Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”
And yet after the flood in Genesis 11 we find these individuals reportedly lived well past 120 years:

Shem: 600 years, Arpachshad: 438 years, Shelah: 433 years, Eber: 464 years, Peleg: 239 years, Reu: 239 years, Serug: 230 years, Nahor: 148 years, Terah: 205 years

How can one account for the reports of such long lives after God's proclamation in Genesis 6?
Maybe it meant the men before flood that didn't found favor in Yahweh’s eyes?
It's a universal statement involving "man" referring to all mankind. There are no qualifiers such as "evil", "wicked", or "those that didn't find favor."


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Re: Another Issue With the Flood Story - 120 years.

Post #25

Post by Tcg »

[Replying to Tcg in post #1]

There are numerous statements that make it clear that God, at least according to the story, was going to bring a universal flood. There are no exceptions or qualifiers. It was going to happen:
Genesis 6:6 And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.”

Genesis 6:13 And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth."

Genesis 6:17 For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die.

Genesis 6:18 But I will establish my covenant with you, and you shall come into the ark, you, your sons, your wife, and your sons' wives with you.

Genesis 7:4 For in seven days I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground.”

<bolding mine>
Based on the fact that God stated that a universal flood was going to happen without exception, what are we to make of the statement in Genesis 6:3?
“My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”

Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Another Issue With the Flood Story - 120 years.

Post #26

Post by 1213 »

Tcg wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:26 pm ...
It's a universal statement involving "man" referring to all mankind. There are no qualifiers such as "evil", "wicked", or "those that didn't find favor."
...
I think Gen. 6:8 should be read as qualifier to it. The Gen. 6:1-8 makes the whole argument and by cutting it from where you need to cut it, is in my opinion dishonest and distorts the meaning of it.

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Re: Another Issue With the Flood Story - 120 years.

Post #27

Post by Tcg »

1213 wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:36 am
Tcg wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:26 pm ...
It's a universal statement involving "man" referring to all mankind. There are no qualifiers such as "evil", "wicked", or "those that didn't find favor."
...
I think Gen. 6:8 should be read as qualifier to it. The Gen. 6:1-8 makes the whole argument and by cutting it from where you need to cut it, is in my opinion dishonest and distorts the meaning of it.
Why should 6:8 be considered a qualifier?


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- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Another Issue With the Flood Story - 120 years.

Post #28

Post by TRANSPONDER »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:15 pm
Purple Knight wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:52 pm I have a lot of issues with language, and this is exemplary of it.

What does God mean when he says "120 years"? Maximum? Minimum? Average? Soft cap?
Is there possibly another, more basic, question you are not asking?
My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”
While we're in the area of "fish teaching" one of the FIRST things I do when questions arise about language in scripture is go to google and read various translations of the verse in question.

Various translations
https://biblehub.com/genesis/6-3.htm





JW



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:) I'm sure in my own mind that you are a better person than to subscribe to the the idea that teaching another a kill they can use to improve their lives (never mind survive) is a bad idea as if they die of starvation, all the more food for you.

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Re: Another Issue With the Flood Story - 120 years.

Post #29

Post by tam »

Peace to you,

I have not read through the rest of the thread, so I apologize if this has already been brought up:

Tcg wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:40 pm
tam wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:17 pm
Instead of all mankind coming to an end in 120 years, though, God made an exception for Noah and his family (due to Noah's faith), and mankind would continue through them. (And though it is not written, had other actual men/women exercised faith - as Noah did - and come to the ark, they too could have been survived.)



Peace again to you!
This last bit doesn't match what is written in the story. Even before building the ark God tells Noah exactly who would be boarding the ark and it is limited to Noah, his wife, his three sons and there wives. There is no provision for any others.


Tcg
Might not have been necessary to mention it if God knew only Noah had that faith. But it is just a few paragraphs describing what would have been a huge event.


But we do have an example from Christ, and example that He (the Truth and Image of God) gave us, even if there were no written provisions made for the Flood.

A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

23 [Jesus] did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

28 Then [Jesus] said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.


He was sent only for the lost sheep of Israel (and she was not one of those), but because of her faith, he granted her request.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: Another Issue With the Flood Story - 120 years.

Post #30

Post by Tcg »

tam wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:29 pm Peace to you,

I have not read through the rest of the thread, so I apologize if this has already been brought up:

Tcg wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:40 pm
tam wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:17 pm
Instead of all mankind coming to an end in 120 years, though, God made an exception for Noah and his family (due to Noah's faith), and mankind would continue through them. (And though it is not written, had other actual men/women exercised faith - as Noah did - and come to the ark, they too could have been survived.)



Peace again to you!
This last bit doesn't match what is written in the story. Even before building the ark God tells Noah exactly who would be boarding the ark and it is limited to Noah, his wife, his three sons and there wives. There is no provision for any others.


Tcg
Might not have been necessary to mention it if God knew only Noah had that faith. But it is just a few paragraphs describing what would have been a huge event.


But we do have an example from Christ, and example that He (the Truth and Image of God) gave us, even if there were no written provisions made for the Flood.

A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

23 [Jesus] did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

28 Then [Jesus] said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.


He was sent only for the lost sheep of Israel (and she was not one of those), but because of her faith, he granted her request.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
This is a totally different situation. God didn't make any absolute statements beforehand about what would happen to this woman. He did in the case of the flood and at least according to the story it played out exactly as God said it would.

Another problem is the use of a much later tale written presumable by one of Jesus' followers and suggesting it would apply to an ancient Hebrew God.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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