Different Gods of Creation?

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Different Gods of Creation?

Post #1

Post by Tcg »

.
Genesis 2 contains a shift in the name of God described as the creator of heaven and earth. This shift can be easily seen in the "Names of God (NOG)" version of the English bible:
Genesis 2:1 Heaven and earth and everything in them were finished. 2 By the seventh day Elohim had finished the work he had been doing. On the seventh day he stopped the work he had been doing. 3 Then Elohim blessed the seventh day and set it apart as holy, because on that day he stopped all his work of creation.

4 This is the account of heaven and earth when they were created, at the time when Yahweh Elohim made earth and heaven.
Elohim is somewhat of a generic name for God and as it is plural, it is the same word used to refer to "gods" or "deities." Yahweh represents the personal name of the Hebrew God and is used in place of the tetragrammaton (YHWH). This can be overlooked in other English versions although some try to indicate this name with the capitalized "LORD." Even with that aid the word may be mistaken as a title as in "Lord Baltimore."

Perhaps the first three verses here should have been included with Genesis 1 as they conclude that version of the creation tale. Genesis 2:4 begins the second version of the creation account.

What does this shift indicate?

Could it represent the shift to a different author?

Does it indicate the inclusion of two conflicting accounts identifying two different Gods responsible for creation?


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Re: Different Gods of Creation?

Post #2

Post by historia »

Tcg wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:29 pm
Could it represent the shift to a different author?
The scholarly consensus is that these two accounts are from two different authors. The shift in the name of God is one indicator of that, but the two stories also seem to have different styles.
Tcg wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:29 pm
Does it indicate the inclusion of two conflicting accounts identifying two different Gods responsible for creation?
No, the author of Genesis 1 is likely writing at a later time than the author of Genesis 2, and may just prefer the more common name Elohim ("God") to indicate the universal sovereignty of the Hebrew God above all others.

The final form of the text gives us a bit of an insight into the final redactor (= editor) of the Torah, too. Even though the two creation accounts are conflicting, he has not chosen one over the other or attempted to smooth out their differences. Likewise, with the Flood story, he has chosen to intertwine two conflicting versions (from these same two authors) without reconciling their differences.

This indicates to me that the redactor did not view these stories as straight-forward historical accounts, otherwise I think he would have attempted to resolve their differences (in one way or another) to create a more consistent narrative, as one finds in modern historical writing.

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Re: Different Gods of Creation?

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Post by Tcg »

historia wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:36 pm
Tcg wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:29 pm
Could it represent the shift to a different author?
The scholarly consensus is that these two accounts are from two different authors. The shift in the name of God is one indicator of that, but the two stories also seem to have different styles.
Tcg wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:29 pm
Does it indicate the inclusion of two conflicting accounts identifying two different Gods responsible for creation?
No, the author of Genesis 1 is likely writing at a later time than the author of Genesis 2, and may just prefer the more common name Elohim ("God") to indicate the universal sovereignty of the Hebrew God above all others.

The final form of the text gives us a bit of an insight into the final redactor (= editor) of the Torah, too. Even though the two creation accounts are conflicting, he has not chosen one over the other or attempted to smooth out their differences. Likewise, with the Flood story, he has chosen to intertwine two conflicting versions (from these same two authors) without reconciling their differences.

This indicates to me that the redactor did not view these stories as straight-forward historical accounts, otherwise I think he would have attempted to resolve their differences (in one way or another) to create a more consistent narrative, as one finds in modern historical writing.
This certainly fits what we find in Genesis 1 & 2. I thought, however, that the use of the common name Elohim would indicate an earlier version.


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Re: Different Gods of Creation?

Post #4

Post by Difflugia »

Tcg wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:34 pm
historia wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:36 pmNo, the author of Genesis 1 is likely writing at a later time than the author of Genesis 2, and may just prefer the more common name Elohim ("God") to indicate the universal sovereignty of the Hebrew God above all others.
This certainly fits what we find in Genesis 1 & 2. I thought, however, that the use of the common name Elohim would indicate an earlier version.
This actually applies to other books of the Bible. Job, for example, has an interesting mix of the Tetragrammaton ("Yahweh"), singular El or Eloah, and plural Elohim. Elohim is universally translated as "God," but it often in Hebrew it usually works better as a plural, often having a definite article ("the gods"). Considering that the context of Job has "the satan" appearing before Yahweh as part of the council of gods, reading verses like 1:8-9 like the folowing might be closer to the original intent:
Yahweh said to the adversary, “Have you considered my servant, Job? For there is no one like him in the earth, a blameless and an upright man, one who fears gods, and turns away from evil.”

Then the adversary answered Yahweh, and said, “Does Job fear gods for nothing?
The stories in Genesis, though, are generally split up based on a general contradiction with Exodus 6:2:
God spoke to Moses, and said to him, “I am Yahweh. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as El Shaddai; but by my name Yahweh I was not known to them.
Since some stories include the patriarchs referring to God as "Yahweh," the author or authors of those must not know that part of the Exodus tradition. Stories by authors that do know the tradition sometimes include an omniscient narrator that calls God Yahweh, but the characters never do. Genesis 17:1 is an example of the latter:
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, Yahweh appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am El Shaddai. Walk before me and be blameless.
If you're interested, the entire introduction to Richard Elliott Friedman's The Bible with Sources Revealed can be read at Google Books. It lays out a condensed version of the Documentary Hypothesis as Friedman understands it.

A couple of years ago, I put a "Documentary Hypothesis reading list" in my member notes thread, bur that was before I realized it couldn't be accessed by nonmembers. I'll reproduce it here:
The Bible with Sources Revealed and Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Elliott Friedman

The Composition of the Pentateuch: Renewing the Documentary Hypothesis by Joel S. Baden

The Sources of the Hexateuch by Edgar Sheffield Brightman (free Google scan)

The Composition of the Hexateuch by J. Estlin Carpenter (free Google scan)

Prolegomena to the History of Israel by Julius Wellhausen (free Google scan or my own free epub edition)

I put together a PDF of the Pentateuch in the American Standard Version with the JEDP sources color-coded according to Carpenter above. It's also free online.
If you find yourself interested in the topic, The Bible with Sources Revealed is worth its weight in gold (well, maybe not gold, but at least beer) and it's still in print.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Different Gods of Creation?

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

DOES GENESIS 1:1 [ELOHIM] MEAN SEVERAL GODS (PLURAL) CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH?

“That the language of the O[ld] T[estament] has entirely given up the idea of plurality in . . . [ʼElo·himʹ] (as applied to the God of Israel) is especially shown by the fact that it is almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute. . . . [ʼElo·himʹ] must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty, being equal to The Great God.”​—Aaron Ember, The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, Vol. XXI, 1905, p. 208.
Image
source : https://www.britannica.com/topic/Elohim





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Re: Different Gods of Creation?

Post #6

Post by Tcg »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:39 am DOES GENESIS 1:1 MEAN SEVERAL GODS (PLURAL) CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH ?
This does not address the questions included in the O.P. They are:
Could it represent the shift to a different author?

Does it indicate the inclusion of two conflicting accounts identifying two different Gods responsible for creation?
There is no mention of a claim concerning "SEVERAL GODS" being responsible for creation. Additionally, the topic addresses a shift that occurs in Genesis 2. Genesis 1 is not mentioned and certainly not Genesis 1:1 alone.


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Re: Different Gods of Creation?

Post #7

Post by Tcg »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:39 am
Is Bill Murray God?
viewtopic.php?p=926633#p926633
Please note that nothing in this thread suggests that an animated gif of Bill Murray relates to the shift of the names of God in Genesis 2. He's an astonishingly funny comedian, but his talents don't address the issue addressed in this thread in any way. It's puzzling why he would even be brought up in this thread.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Different Gods of Creation?

Post #8

Post by William »

Could it represent the shift to a different author?
I think shifts to different biblical authors might be the case, because it happens. Are the authors saying the same thing?
Does it indicate the inclusion of two conflicting accounts identifying two different Gods responsible for creation?
Search English to Hebrew

Word under investigation:
Elohim.

Hebrew Word for Elohim;
אלוהים

Enter Mysticism to explain meaning of Hebrew word, through examining the meanings of the letters which make up said word;

א - The first letter is Aleph. First letters always represent the anchoring point from which the other letters making up the word, then point to, in relation to their own meanings.

Aleph - Lammed - Vav - Hei - Yod - Mem

Search English to Hebrew

Word under investigation:
Yahweh.

Hebrew Word for Elohim;
יהוה

Yod - Hei - Vav - Hei

Examining the meanings related to the letters creating the words, and one can possibly find therein at least positive clues as to whether there are two gods being mentioned by two different authors, or the two different authors are speaking of the same god.

If they are speaking of the same god, it may not be that these are two different authors.

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Re: Different Gods of Creation?

Post #9

Post by historia »

Tcg wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:34 pm
I thought, however, that the use of the common name Elohim would indicate an earlier version.
I should probably note here that, while there is some disagreement among scholars regarding precisely when these sources were composed and how they were ultimately brought together, there appears to be near-universal agreement among scholars that the author of Genesis 1 (P) wrote his account after the author of Genesis 2 (J).

That conclusion is based on a number of factors -- including the language, theology, and concerns of each author -- and so their divergent use of the name Yahweh and Elohim in their respective creation accounts is perhaps not, in itself, determinative of when they were written.

That being said, it seems that using a generic name for God in the creation account reflects a belief that Yahweh is to be identified with (the high) God, which appears to be a later development in ancient Israelite religion. As that idea develops, we see Jewish authors using the name Yahweh less, at any rate.

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Re: Different Gods of Creation?

Post #10

Post by Tcg »

historia wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:09 pm
Tcg wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:34 pm
I thought, however, that the use of the common name Elohim would indicate an earlier version.
I should probably note here that, while there is some disagreement among scholars regarding precisely when these sources were composed and how they were ultimately brought together, there appears to be near-universal agreement among scholars that the author of Genesis 1 (P) wrote his account after the author of Genesis 2 (J).

That conclusion is based on a number of factors -- including the language, theology, and concerns of each author -- and so their divergent use of the name Yahweh and Elohim in their respective creation accounts is perhaps not, in itself, determinative of when they were written.

That being said, it seems that using a generic name for God in the creation account reflects a belief that Yahweh is to be identified with (the high) God, which appears to be a later development in ancient Israelite religion. As that idea develops, we see Jewish authors using the name Yahweh less, at any rate.
It is clear then that the different names used for God and other differences indicate that the two creation stories are from different sources. I'm still curious if these sources, although not literal referring to different Gods, could be based on different stages in the evolution of thought about the Hebrew God.

In attempting to research the origin of these names I stumbled across the following article which suggests that the name YHWH may have originated with the Midianites and therefore would be an Arabic name. I had assumed that it must undoubtedly be of Hebrew origin given the Exodus connection.
YHWH: The Original Arabic Meaning of the Name

God reveals his name to Moses as “I am,” from the Hebrew root ה.ו.י, “being.” The name YHWH, however, originates in Midian, and derives from the Arabic term for “love, desire, or passion.”

An Arabic Name

If YHWH’s origins are in the Nomad-land of Yehwa among the Midianites, then the meaning of the name should be from the Arabic language family rather than the Hebrew language family. This further calls into question the etymology in Exodus 3 of the Tetragrammaton from ה.ו.י, “to be,” since, unlike Hebrew and Aramaic, Proto-Arabic does not have the root ה.ו.י for the word “to be.”

The Jealous God

In 1956, Shelomo Dov Goitein (1900-1985), a scholar of both Jewish and Arabic studies,[16] suggested that the name derives from the Arabic root h.w.y (هوى), and the word hawaya (هوايا), which means “love, affection, passion, desire.”[17] He connected this suggestion with the passage in Exodus 34, in a set of laws known by scholars as the Ritual Decalogue. One of the laws, which forbids Israel to worship other gods, reads:

שמות לד:יד כִּי לֹא תִשְׁתַּחֲוֶה לְאֵל אַחֵר כִּי יְ־הוָה קַנָּא שְׁמוֹ אֵל קַנָּא הוּא.

Exod 34:14 For you must not worship any other god, because YHWH, whose name is Impassioned, is an impassioned God.

Goitein suggests that “YHWH whose name is Impassioned” refers to the deity’s personal name YHWH, which means “the Impassioned One,” and that this name derives from that (proto)Arabic term for passion. This reflects the idea that YHWH’s bond with his worshipers is one of passionate love, and YHWH is upset if the worshipers “cheat” by worshipping other gods.

https://www.thetorah.com/article/yhwh-t ... f-the-name
This indicates at least the possibility that the two sources may have had very different views of the God involved.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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