Some of my worst friends are agnostics

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TRANSPONDER
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Some of my worst friends are agnostics

Post #1

Post by TRANSPONDER »

I just recalled a puzzle that puzzled me on my former board. Now some 'agnostics' (irreligious theists or Deists) were like bosom buddies and were as touch on Biblewrit as I was and were regarded by the theists posters as being atheist pretty much.

But there were Some avowed agnostics (1) who were implacably hostile towards atheists. And I couldn't make it out. One was playing the cultural Christianity,we need religion,true or not and look at all the good it has done -card for all he was worth. He sometimes forgot himself so much as to post cut and paste and even videos arguing for religion as true . nit just necessary. Another arrived having just accepted that if you didn't believe in a god you were an atheist, but he later tried to deny that and swore he was just an 'agnostic'. His line was atheism is being ruined by those loudmouths who argue atheism. that "atheism should do is shut up an go away and let Christianity die a natural death" 8-) Yes, I can see how that would springboard atheism into dominating US society in a year or so. A third well he claimed to be an atheist but he...well his beliefs were evasive and his view of Other atheists were that they were...whatever bad thing he could think to say. And the last actually the first :D tried to validate theism by fiddling with definitions. I used to say 'You could call your garden gnome 'God' and claim that you'd proved that God was real, but that won't convince anyone else'. But the fact was that he didn't care, just so long as he could keep trolling atheists.

In fact it was the later two that clued me in and of course it is a US phenomenon, and is actually not to be found in the UK. One of them arrived beefing and whining about religious values and about boys dressed as girls and same sex bathrooms. In short, residual Catholic values. The clue is in politics and the way religion is welded back to back at the metal plate in their skulls. Also te sheer bad rap the name'atheist has may make Americans want to call themselves Anything other than atheist
"Heck no, I ain't no atheist - I just don't believe in God, that's all!" There sees to be all kinds of associated baggage that goes with atheism apart from no god -belief. No wonder they can't believe that's all it really is. Apart from the books, websites and infesting forums like this, but that's not atheism. That's just what we do ;) .

Thus some may come to doubt or even disbelieve in God or at least religion, but they have some idea that (if so) they must turn in their right wing party card and apply for a Liberal party plastic swipe. This is of course nonsense since (in the UK at least) politics and social ideas has no more to do with religion than it has to do with your taste in music or films. But that explained everything. They had either to identify with a right kind of atheist and find some way of demonising the Wrong kind (who were liberals espousing all those pinkoe values they hated) or they were desperately trying to find a god they could believe in without having to flush their brains out with Holy Water.,so they could stop being atheist Cosmic Mind or Intelligent nature is not a bad one as you can't deny the Cosmos and nature can you? Evidence is all there. :) ,

Discussion point? Please yourselves, I've done enough for one night.

(1) one reluctantly accepted that he was actually an atheist since he didn't believe in God anymore and another claimed to be an atheist but was trying to talk himself into believing in a cosmic mind. The third well he arrived as an agnostic if not an atheist ...but I'll leave that to the post.

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Re: Some of my worst friends are agnostics

Post #21

Post by help3434 »

Tcg wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:22 am
help3434 wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:33 pm
I very strongly disagree. There are uncountable levels of belief or doubt that one can have on any given assertion. Do you believe that my right hand has five fingers.
There are only two answers to this question.

- Yes, I believe.

- No, I don't.
Really, so when you say "I believe" do you mean every single time that you believe with every fiber of your being with the same level of surety that you know that you are a conscious being, or would you also say that about something you were only 98% sure was actually true? Just using the binary of those two answers gives incomplete information.

Tcg wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:22 am Where are the "uncountable levels of belief or doubt" you claim?
Different levels of belief and doubt about an assertion, as well as the level you even have an opinion one way or another about any given assertion. In my previous post expamples of four different questions are assertions, where it would make sense to have different levels of belief for each one.
Tcg wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:22 am Can one partially believe you have five fingers on your right hand? Can one sort of doubt you do?
You certainly could about me. For all you know I have Polydactyly or had a bad accident with a sharp instrument...
Last edited by help3434 on Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Some of my worst friends are agnostics

Post #22

Post by TRANSPONDER »

That's quite a nice analogy and immediately i thought of the 'Black swan' fallacy. Or apologetic at least. As I recall it depends on the level of knowledge at a particular time. All known swans were white.

Therefore it could be considered a definition of swans 'They are all white'. Now someone might ask 'why can't swans be another color, or even colour? Answer might be (correctly) there is no logical reason why not. But so far it seems they are all white.

Then black swans were discovered and the 'powered flight' apologetic could be used here. "Skeptics denied black swans - but they exist. So they now look stupid. If you don't want to look stupicd you had better accept the claim that Jesus rose from the dead."

Fallacy, (I use the cold fusion' rebuttal, but one could equally say 'Then you ought to accept that Muhammad rode to heaven on a winged horse'. (The 'which god' - or which religion - rebuttal.

The argument 'Skeptics denied powered flight' was always a fallacy. The Black swan fallacy, in fact.

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