I just recalled a puzzle that puzzled me on my former board. Now some 'agnostics' (irreligious theists or Deists) were like bosom buddies and were as touch on Biblewrit as I was and were regarded by the theists posters as being atheist pretty much.
But there were Some avowed agnostics (1) who were implacably hostile towards atheists. And I couldn't make it out. One was playing the cultural Christianity,we need religion,true or not and look at all the good it has done -card for all he was worth. He sometimes forgot himself so much as to post cut and paste and even videos arguing for religion as true . nit just necessary. Another arrived having just accepted that if you didn't believe in a god you were an atheist, but he later tried to deny that and swore he was just an 'agnostic'. His line was atheism is being ruined by those loudmouths who argue atheism. that "atheism should do is shut up an go away and let Christianity die a natural death" Yes, I can see how that would springboard atheism into dominating US society in a year or so. A third well he claimed to be an atheist but he...well his beliefs were evasive and his view of Other atheists were that they were...whatever bad thing he could think to say. And the last actually the first tried to validate theism by fiddling with definitions. I used to say 'You could call your garden gnome 'God' and claim that you'd proved that God was real, but that won't convince anyone else'. But the fact was that he didn't care, just so long as he could keep trolling atheists.
In fact it was the later two that clued me in and of course it is a US phenomenon, and is actually not to be found in the UK. One of them arrived beefing and whining about religious values and about boys dressed as girls and same sex bathrooms. In short, residual Catholic values. The clue is in politics and the way religion is welded back to back at the metal plate in their skulls. Also te sheer bad rap the name'atheist has may make Americans want to call themselves Anything other than atheist
"Heck no, I ain't no atheist - I just don't believe in God, that's all!" There sees to be all kinds of associated baggage that goes with atheism apart from no god -belief. No wonder they can't believe that's all it really is. Apart from the books, websites and infesting forums like this, but that's not atheism. That's just what we do .
Thus some may come to doubt or even disbelieve in God or at least religion, but they have some idea that (if so) they must turn in their right wing party card and apply for a Liberal party plastic swipe. This is of course nonsense since (in the UK at least) politics and social ideas has no more to do with religion than it has to do with your taste in music or films. But that explained everything. They had either to identify with a right kind of atheist and find some way of demonising the Wrong kind (who were liberals espousing all those pinkoe values they hated) or they were desperately trying to find a god they could believe in without having to flush their brains out with Holy Water.,so they could stop being atheist Cosmic Mind or Intelligent nature is not a bad one as you can't deny the Cosmos and nature can you? Evidence is all there. ,
Discussion point? Please yourselves, I've done enough for one night.
(1) one reluctantly accepted that he was actually an atheist since he didn't believe in God anymore and another claimed to be an atheist but was trying to talk himself into believing in a cosmic mind. The third well he arrived as an agnostic if not an atheist ...but I'll leave that to the post.
Some of my worst friends are agnostics
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Re: Some of my worst friends are agnostics
Post #2TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:12 pm
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Re: Some of my worst friends are agnostics
Post #3Tcg wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:19 amYou are right, and I shall have to think of one.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:12 pm
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Let me cast my observation as a question:
Q . Do the bods here think that I am right in my idea ...this is hard to put as a question. mainly because some 'agnostics' do believe in a god (but not a religion) but others don't believe in a god (even if they believe in a religion for social purposes).... let's put it this way,
Do the bods here think that I am right in my idea that some or many who do not believe in a god, or Religion or both are still hostile to Atheists and atheism for reasons of socio/political partisanship?
I think that'll do as a Q.
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Re: Some of my worst friends are agnostics
Post #4[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #3]
In the USA (maybe other places as well?) politics cross all lines and, as such, can make it difficult to pinpoint any other main reason as to why, not to mention the spectrum of any belief within a group of individuals.
I've seen people of all beliefs hostile to others of other beliefs. This include theists, atheists, agnostics or misc.
Thus, I wouldn't conclude any one group, more than another, to become hostile when it comes to political-ish things.
'Some' and 'many' are highly ambiguous for a succinct answer, I suspect.Do the bods here think that I am right in my idea that some or many who do not believe in a god, or Religion or both are still hostile to Atheists and atheism for reasons of socio/political partisanship?
In the USA (maybe other places as well?) politics cross all lines and, as such, can make it difficult to pinpoint any other main reason as to why, not to mention the spectrum of any belief within a group of individuals.
I've seen people of all beliefs hostile to others of other beliefs. This include theists, atheists, agnostics or misc.
Thus, I wouldn't conclude any one group, more than another, to become hostile when it comes to political-ish things.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
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Re: Some of my worst friends are agnostics
Post #5I think that's right and I wonder whether my argument (before and after being turned into a question) can expect any feedback. Which is why I was making an observation (contrary to rules ) there I have noted a kind of 'agnostic'who is atheist in everything other than being an atheist, because they hate atheists. For I suspect, political reasons. Specifically, atheists are Liberals (so they have told me in the past) and they hate everything Liberal.nobspeople wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:33 am [Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #3]
'Some' and 'many' are highly ambiguous for a succinct answer, I suspect.Do the bods here think that I am right in my idea that some or many who do not believe in a god, or Religion or both are still hostile to Atheists and atheism for reasons of socio/political partisanship?
In the USA (maybe other places as well?) politics cross all lines and, as such, can make it difficult to pinpoint any other main reason as to why, not to mention the spectrum of any belief within a group of individuals.
I've seen people of all beliefs hostile to others of other beliefs. This include theists, atheists, agnostics or misc.
Thus, I wouldn't conclude any one group, more than another, to become hostile when it comes to political-ish things.
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Re: Some of my worst friends are agnostics
Post #6Moderator ClarificationTRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:44 am Which is why I was making an observation (contrary to rules )
It is not contrary to the rules to make only observations in non-debate sub-forums. General Chat and Random Ramblings are the perfect place for them. In debate sub-forums questions for debate are required. O.P.s that don't include them will be moved to the appropriate sub-forum.
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Re: Some of my worst friends are agnostics
Post #7[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #5]
Or, maybe, I don't know enough atheists
From my experience, you've been misinformed.Specifically, atheists are Liberals (so they have told me in the past) and they hate everything Liberal.
Or, maybe, I don't know enough atheists
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
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Re: Some of my worst friends are agnostics
Post #8Quite possibly. Or I've been misled by a few 'Agnostics' who make a point of going after atheists. I have have interacted with a few who have been very companionable towards atheists. But then I did post to get some more feedback.
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Re: Some of my worst friends are agnostics
Post #9I also wonder by what means someone claims 'the worst' of something. I've found many times, one person can say or do one thing to which another takes sever offense, when it's not necessary, claiming 'that's the worst thing I've ever heard' and passing that judgement on that person.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:20 pm Quite possibly. Or I've been misled by a few 'Agnostics' who make a point of going after atheists. I have have interacted with a few who have been very companionable towards atheists. But then I did post to get some more feedback.
In other words, some need a thicker skin these days.
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Re: Some of my worst friends are agnostics
Post #10Yes, you are right. I've been blasted on here before about this, but I will say it again - there is no middle road between theism and atheism. "Agnostic", as some people use it, means they are neither a believer or a non-believer. That is utter hogwash. They are claiming the equivalent of being sort-of pregnant. Either you believe or you don't. If someone says they are unsure if they believe, that is by definition NOT believing.
You are right, and I shall have to think of one.
Let me cast my observation as a question:
Q . Do the bods here think that I am right in my idea ...this is hard to put as a question. mainly because some 'agnostics' do believe in a god (but not a religion) but others don't believe in a god (even if they believe in a religion for social purposes).... let's put it this way,
Do the bods here think that I am right in my idea that some or many who do not believe in a god, or Religion or both are still hostile to Atheists and atheism for reasons of socio/political partisanship?
I think that'll do as a Q.
This ignores the fact that the word gnostic deals with knowledge and not belief in the first place. Since people say they "are not sure", and they are talking about what they know, they call themselves agnostic. Somehow a comment about knowledge becomes a place where their belief is too, a "not sure" area. Makes zero sense.
I mention all this to arrive at why I think you are right. Some people don't believe, but see the atheist camp as one they don't want to be in because their friends won't like it. I say - get new friends then.