Ten Commandments

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3191
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 817 times

Ten Commandments

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Ask 1000 christians "What, exactly, counts as 'a sin'?" and you'd probably get various answers. Most, somewhere in the conversation, would likely visit the Ten Commandments. Fair enough, I suppose. But are there other things that aren't included in the Ten Commandments - outliers - that are also sin?
Some say it's a sin to smoke, drink, do drugs, curse. Some say those are OK so long as you're not over indulging in them.
Some say it's a sin to kill another human being, while others say it's not if it pertains to justice and or self defense.
Some say it's a sin to blaspheme, yet many can't agree on what that is, exactly.
Some say it's a sin to disobey god, while others say it's not a sin, just not a good idea.
Some say it's a sin to be gay, while others say it's not, but the act it, while others still say being gay is not an issue.
Some say it's a sin to have sex before marriage, while others say it's not, while others still say having sex is a union and thus, dictates being married.

It seems that, if sin separates one from god, it's an important enough concept in which everyone should be able to fully grasp.

So, assuming violating the 10 CMDMTS is a sin, are there other things that are sinful as well? If yes, what are they, exactly? If not, is it safe to say obeying the 10 CMDMTS is a sure-fire way to avoid sin?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

POI
Sage
Posts: 780
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 400 times
Been thanked: 312 times

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #51

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:40 am
POI wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:30 pm ...If you believe/accept/humble/repent to this God, all 'sin' is now covered under God's grace. This makes the 10 Commandments unnecessary to now follow. ...
If all wrong doings would be ok, why would anyone repent? Only reason to repent is that person understand he has done wrongly and regrets it and does not want to do it again. And only way to know what to repent is to know the Law that tells what is wrong. This is why, God's commandments are not unnecessary, or meaningless.
I do not think I conveyed my message clearly enough. Let me try again.

If you profess to YWHW that you believe in Him, and that you are a sinner, all your future committed 'sin' will now be absolved. Meaning, you could knowingly and/or unintentionally continue to break many of the 10 Commandments, along with all other expressed "transgressions", and you are NOW under the cloak of God's grace. Which is to mean that all future lies, adultery, and others are now 'auto-forgiven'.

Under your brand of Christianity, 'sin' has no more bases. "Sin" is now meaningless. You have told Him that you are a filthy sinner, in need of God's grace. You are then perpetually absolved from all passed/present/future 'sin'.

So why not just instead tell the readers of the Bible that all you need to do is believe and repent as a perpetual sinner; for which you are then given the keys to heaven...

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 9059
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 157 times
Contact:

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #52

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:26 pm ...If you profess to YWHW that you believe in Him, and that you are a sinner, all your future committed 'sin' will now be absolved. Meaning, you could knowingly and/or unintentionally continue to break many of the 10 Commandments, along with all other expressed "transgressions", and you are NOW under the cloak of God's grace. Which is to mean that all future lies, adultery, and others are now 'auto-forgiven'...
No, that is not what the Bible teaches. "God's grace" is not licence to sin, nor licence to do bad things. God forgives and that means you have avoided the death that is the wage of sin. But if after that you reject God and again live in sin, the earlier forgiveness is not useful, because you have new sin.

You can have wrongdoings, and sin many times forgiven, but the eternal life is for righteous. So, there must happen change in person so that he becomes righteous, for to get the eternal life. Righteous person doesn't sin. But, it is possible that even righteous person renounces righteousness and rejects God and so returns to sin. And obviously then no forgiveness is useful, because eternal life is for righteous. It goes like this in the Bible:

"Most assuredly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can't enter into the Kingdom of God! That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Don't marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born anew.'
John 3:3-7

But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God's children, to those who believe in his name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12-13

It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

When you are righteous, you understand what is good and right and want to freely do so. That is why I believe eternal life is promised for righteous, they know how to live well and don't make life eternal suffering for all.

POI
Sage
Posts: 780
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 400 times
Been thanked: 312 times

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #53

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:46 pm
POI wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:26 pm ...If you profess to YWHW that you believe in Him, and that you are a sinner, all your future committed 'sin' will now be absolved. Meaning, you could knowingly and/or unintentionally continue to break many of the 10 Commandments, along with all other expressed "transgressions", and you are NOW under the cloak of God's grace. Which is to mean that all future lies, adultery, and others are now 'auto-forgiven'...
No, that is not what the Bible teaches. "God's grace" is not licence to sin, nor licence to do bad things.
Then this means you must confess/repent for every sin you will ever commit. Virtually no one could do this. Does this mean no one goes to Heaven?

User avatar
JoeyKnothead
Under Probation
Posts: 18673
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Here
Has thanked: 1629 times
Been thanked: 1118 times

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #54

Post by JoeyKnothead »

1213 wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:40 am If all wrong doings would be ok, why would anyone repent? Only reason to repent is that person understand he has done wrongly and regrets it and does not want to do it again. And only way to know what to repent is to know the Law that tells what is wrong. This is why, God's commandments are not unnecessary, or meaningless.
Ya know what? Though I might disagree on the particulars, across your posts, you tend to present a theology that holds folks to being good and kind, and all such as that.

I like how here you kinda expect one to reflect on their own actions, without that whole "they're demonic" deal.

I respect that, and you about it. I'm gonna start calling you friend.
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

- William

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 9059
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 157 times
Contact:

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #55

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:52 pm
1213 wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:46 pm
POI wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:26 pm ...If you profess to YWHW that you believe in Him, and that you are a sinner, all your future committed 'sin' will now be absolved. Meaning, you could knowingly and/or unintentionally continue to break many of the 10 Commandments, along with all other expressed "transgressions", and you are NOW under the cloak of God's grace. Which is to mean that all future lies, adultery, and others are now 'auto-forgiven'...
No, that is not what the Bible teaches. "God's grace" is not licence to sin, nor licence to do bad things.
Then this means you must confess/repent for every sin you will ever commit. Virtually no one could do this. Does this mean no one goes to Heaven?
I think it is not a must, people are free to do whatever they want. But, if one is righteous, he regrets/repents, when he knows he has done wrongly. And as I said in earlier post (Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:46 pm), eternal life is for righteous. Eternal live is a gift for righteous, and does not depend on the works. It is more about what kind of person one is.

Also, if it would be so that one has done lot of wrong things, I believe it is enough to say to God, “please forgive all the wrong things I have done”. I don't think it is required to make detailed list of things. but, basically in Bible all law comes to that one should love his neighbor as himself. So, one could also say, “please forgive that I have not always loved as I should”.

I think it really is not about being perfect, but about to have right understanding and attitude, which makes person act in good way. This means, person wants to freely do good and right, because he understands it is good. Maybe he fails in some things, that is not a problem, because when righteous person knows he has done wrongly, he is sorry and wants to be better next time.

POI
Sage
Posts: 780
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 400 times
Been thanked: 312 times

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #56

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:39 pm
POI wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:52 pm
1213 wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:46 pm
POI wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:26 pm ...If you profess to YWHW that you believe in Him, and that you are a sinner, all your future committed 'sin' will now be absolved. Meaning, you could knowingly and/or unintentionally continue to break many of the 10 Commandments, along with all other expressed "transgressions", and you are NOW under the cloak of God's grace. Which is to mean that all future lies, adultery, and others are now 'auto-forgiven'...
No, that is not what the Bible teaches. "God's grace" is not licence to sin, nor licence to do bad things.
Then this means you must confess/repent for every sin you will ever commit. Virtually no one could do this. Does this mean no one goes to Heaven?
I think it is not a must, people are free to do whatever they want. But, if one is righteous, he regrets/repents, when he knows he has done wrongly. And as I said in earlier post (Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:46 pm), eternal life is for righteous. Eternal live is a gift for righteous, and does not depend on the works. It is more about what kind of person one is.

Also, if it would be so that one has done lot of wrong things, I believe it is enough to say to God, “please forgive all the wrong things I have done”. I don't think it is required to make detailed list of things. but, basically in Bible all law comes to that one should love his neighbor as himself. So, one could also say, “please forgive that I have not always loved as I should”.

I think it really is not about being perfect, but about to have right understanding and attitude, which makes person act in good way. This means, person wants to freely do good and right, because he understands it is good. Maybe he fails in some things, that is not a problem, because when righteous person knows he has done wrongly, he is sorry and wants to be better next time.
What's the difference between a 'righteous lie' verses an 'evil lie'? They are both still lies. They are both still sin. God apparently hates all sin. Lying is a sin. Lying is also listed within the 10 Commandments. Is there such a things s a 'good' lie? I doubt it, according to YHWH. The 9th Commandment is quite clear.

You acknowledged "it is not a must" to repent of every single sin. This means sin is meaningless. God's grace will cover whatever you do not specifically repent of; as long as you grovel to the right God. Which-is-to-mean, you worship the 'correct god'.

"Remorse" does not appear to be an indicator of anything. A remorseful Hindu does not score any favor with YHWH. Why? The Hindu does not pledge allegiance to YHWH. Hence, if a Hindu lies, and a Christian lies, the only one considered 'good' is the Christian. The Hindu is instead considered 'evil', despite any feelings of remorse for lying. Why? Because the Hindu does not bow to the correct source.

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 7140
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 1270 times
Been thanked: 1499 times

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #57

Post by Tcg »

1213 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:39 pm
I think it really is not about being perfect, but about to have right understanding and attitude, which makes person act in good way. This means, person wants to freely do good and right, because he understands it is good. Maybe he fails in some things, that is not a problem, because when righteous person knows he has done wrongly, he is sorry and wants to be better next time.
The author of Ezekiel considers it a big problem:
18:24 But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die.

Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 9059
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 157 times
Contact:

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #58

Post by 1213 »

Tcg wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:08 am
1213 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:39 pm
I think it really is not about being perfect, but about to have right understanding and attitude, which makes person act in good way. This means, person wants to freely do good and right, because he understands it is good. Maybe he fails in some things, that is not a problem, because when righteous person knows he has done wrongly, he is sorry and wants to be better next time.
The author of Ezekiel considers it a big problem:
18:24 But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die.
Thanks, I think Ezekiel wrote well. I think it is not in contradiction with what I said. And I think the sin, the only sin, is to turn away from righteousness and God. That leads to many evil things. However, doing a mistake is not necessary the same as turning away from righteousness.

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 9059
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 157 times
Contact:

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #59

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:44 pm ...
What's the difference between a 'righteous lie' verses an 'evil lie'? They are both still lies. They are both still sin. God apparently hates all sin. Lying is a sin. Lying is also listed within the 10 Commandments. Is there such a things s a 'good' lie? I doubt it, according to YHWH. The 9th Commandment is quite clear.
I don't think righteous lie is possible. And I don't think there is any good lie.
POI wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:44 pm...
You acknowledged "it is not a must" to repent of every single sin. ...
I think there is only one thing that is a sin, to reject God and righteousness. When one does that, it leads to unlawfulness, wickedness and all bad/evil things.

Making a mistake, doing some wrong things, is not necessary a sin, if person doesn't reject God and righteousness. If person is righteous, he regrets his wrong action and doesn't want to do it again. And then it is forgiven and not a problem.

User avatar
Miles
Prodigy
Posts: 3345
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 255 times
Been thanked: 921 times

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #60

Post by Miles »

1213 wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:16 pm I think there is only one thing that is a sin, to reject God and righteousness.
And all the time the Bible goes on and on about concealing and confessing one's sinS. What a waste. Right?

Making a mistake, doing some wrong things, is not necessary a sin, if person doesn't reject God and righteousness.
Why would making a mistake ever be a sin?

.

Post Reply