Marriage and divorce in christianity

[nobspeople]

It was once said to be a sin to get divorced (some sect may still see it this way as some don't).
It was once said that marriage is a 'special' contract, blessed by god (some may not see it that way any longer).


For discussion:
How does your faith deal with marriage and divorce?

Does it hold marriage in high standard yet allow divorce? If marriage is 'special', can it only be preformed by a priest? If it allows divorce, under what circumstances? And why?
Does it hold marriage in a high standard and frown on (or prohibit) divorce?
Does it not care much about either, marriage or divorce?

What's your opinion about the secular marriage and divorce today?

A lot of questions that could be dealt with in individual threads, so feel free to initialize which discussion point(s) you wish, but keep in mind others may ask your POV on a point on which you didn't initially address - which is totally fair and even expected.

[JehovahsWitness]

If however the wronged partner seeks a secular divorce, he or she would not be seen as being free to remarry unless the abusive partner himself remarries or starts a sexual relationship with another partner (commits adultery).

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

Why would someone who is being beaten have to wait until the person in the wrong has sex with someone else ....?

If someone is being beaten ie is actively being subjectied to physical abuse they should get out (or call the police and get their abuser removed) immediately! They do not have to wait until their abuser commits adultery to take measures to protect themselves and their children.

You are free to beat your wife ....

No you are not "free to beat your wife". Jehovahs Witnesses do not tolerate physically abusing ones partner any more than we tolerate adultery.




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[JehovahsWitness]

REMARRIAGE

... You are saying that the wronged partner has to wait until the person who did the wrong does even more wrong before being free to remarry?

Yes pretty much. We didnt write the bible, we just apply it.

Why would someone ... have to wait until the person in the wrong has sex with someone else before being free to remarry?

Because that is what the bible commands; scripture is clear enough on that point....

MATTHEW 5: :32 - New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (Study Edition)

32 However, I say to you that everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of sexual immorality, makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

STALEMATE

You are free to ... keep her from happiness by remarrying.

If you mean the husband would be keeping "[his wife] from the happiness of remarrying" : basically all husbands (in countries that do not legalize bigamy) are stopping their wives from remarrying. The only difference is what are the grounds for ending that stalemate. Biblically an estranged abusive partner can maintain that situation as long as he or she is willing to live in perpetual celibacy. In short from what I have seen... not very long.

. If you (the abuser) want to remarry, no problem, just have sex with someone else.

If an abusive husband has sex with someone else that is called adultery; the wronged partner would be free to divorce and remarry (see above).

If this is truly the case, it's just another reason to avoid the JWs.

Be our guest.








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SEX ,MARRIAGE and ... DIVORCE

[benchwarmer]

Why would someone who is being beaten have to wait until the person in the wrong has sex with someone else ....?

If someone is being beaten ie is actively being subjectied to physical abuse they should get out (or call the police and get their abuser removed) immediately! They do not have to wait until their abuser commits adultery to take measures to protect themselves and their children.

Of course, yet they have to remain married to the abuser. Or at least until the abuser has some sex with someone else. Nice (not).

You are free to beat your wife ....

No you are not "free to beat your wife". Jehovahs Witnesses do not tolerate physically abusing ones partner any more than we tolerate adultery.

Yet you tolerate the abused remaining shackled to the abuser via marriage until the abuser decides to have some sex.

You support this odd position because you think that's what God wants (via Bible interpretation). I'd say either:

1) If this is what God really intends, then God is twisted.

2) The Bible is not God nor does it accurately portray His wishes (and/or it can just be interpreted to one's liking).

3) There is no god and all of this is just an excuse to hold power over the abused.

My guess is (3), why any loving Christian thinks someone must remain married to an abuser under ANY circumstances unless the abuser does even more wrong is a mystery to me (well, beyond the fact they think they are interpreting a holy book and that trumps rational compassion).

[benchwarmer]

... You are saying that the wronged partner has to wait until the person who did the wrong does even more wrong before being free to remarry?

Yes pretty much. We didnt write the bible, we just apply it.

I can see that. Does your love and compassion for your fellow humans not cause you pause that you might be interpreting it wrong and/or it's just words written by other humans and not actually from an infinitely loving god?

Why would someone ... have to wait until the person in the wrong has sex with someone else before being free to remarry?

Because that is what the bible commands; scripture is clear enough on that point....

And that doesn't cause you any concerns that scripture might have an issue.... Hmmm

Sounds like a case of assuming scripture is correct first, then dancing/dealing with all the odd stuff you run across and refusing to let go of the original assumption.

You are free to ... keep her from happiness by remarrying.

If you mean the husband would be keeping "[his wife] from the happiness of remarrying" : basically all husbands (in countries that do not legalize bigamy) are stopping their wives from remarrying. The only difference is what are the grounds for ending that stalemate. Biblically an estranged abusive partner can maintain that situation as long as he or she is willing to live in perpetual celibacy. In short from what I have seen... not very long.

Well, your limited experience aside, it saddens me that you uphold the power of an abuser over the abused. It saddens me even more that you do this out of a faith position rather than looking at the hard facts on the ground. An abused wife is held captive in a marriage until the abusive husband has some sex.

In the secular world, the way to end the stalemate is simply file for divorce through the legal system, then go remarry. It can be for any reason. One doesn't have to wait until the other party goes and has some sex. Only when religion gets involved does this become an issue.

. If you (the abuser) want to remarry, no problem, just have sex with someone else.

If an abusive husband has sex with someone else that is called adultery; the wronged partner would be free to divorce and remarry (see above).

Yes, that was my point. The abuser has all the power. They can either hold onto the marriage, or if they want to remarry, just have some sex. Meanwhile, the abused sits around waiting for the abuser to have that sex.

[JehovahsWitness]

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

Why would someone who is being beaten have to wait until the person in the wrong has sex with someone else ....?

If someone is being beaten ie is actively being subjected to physical abuse they should get out (or call the police and get their abuser removed) IMMEDATELY ! They do not have to wait until their abuser commits adultery to take measures to protect themselves and their children.

You are free to beat your wife ....

No you are not "free to beat your wife". Jehovahs Witnesses do not tolerate physically abusing ones partner any more than we tolerate adultery.

Yet you tolerate the abused remaining shackled to the abuser via marriage until the abuser decides to have some sex.

No. If for her security or for other financial or related reasons an abused partner decides a secular divorce is necessary, Jehovahs Witnesses would support a wronged parnter in their decision. This is different from a baseless or frivolous divorce which is discouraged . In short, abuse victims do NOT have to remain married if they do not wish to do so, they can simply file for divorce through the legal system.









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[benchwarmer]

Yet you tolerate the abused remaining shackled to the abuser via marriage until the abuser decides to have some sex.

No. If for her security or for other financial or related reasons an abused partner decides a secular divorce is necessary, Jehovahs Witnesses would support a wronged parnter in their decision. This is different from a baseless or frivolous divorce which is discouraged . In short, abuse victims do NOT have to remain married if they do not wish to do so, she can simply simply file for divorce through the legal system.

Now you are just contradicting yourself. Earlier you said (bolding mine)

Physical and emotional abuse (and other misconducts such as negligence ... ) are viewed as a legitimate motive to seek a legal seperation by Jehovah's Witnesses. If however the wronged partner seeks a secular divorce, he or she would not be seen as being free to remarry unless the abusive partner himself remarries or starts a sexual relationship with another partner (commits adultery).

So, you are basically squirming on the fine point that yes, the abused can seek a secular divorce, BUT they are not seen as free to remarry by Jehovah's Witnesses.

I can only hope than an abused JW will indeed separate themselves from the abuser both physically and legally. If they happen to find love and want to remarry, then I hope they separate themselves from JWs as well since that seems necessary (unless of course they somehow discover the abuser has had some sex).

[JehovahsWitness]

... the abused can seek a secular divorce, BUT they are not seen as free to remarry by Jehovah's Witnesses.

That is correct. Where did I say otherwise ("contradicting")?

I can only hope than an abused JW will indeed separate themselves from the abuser both physically and legally.

That is what I just said.

Are there situations when separation is advisable?
viewtopic.php?p=1059864#p1059864

Do Christian wives have to stay in abusive relationships?
viewtopic.php?p=1059939#p1059939

[benchwarmer]

... the abused can seek a secular divorce, BUT they are not seen as free to remarry by Jehovah's Witnesses.

That is correct. Where did I say otherwise ("contradicting")?

I meant contradicting in the fact that the person is no longer married (secularly), yet still seen as married (religiously).

I think readers get the point. An abuser can hold the right to remarry over the abused even after a legal divorce. Assuming of course the abused wants to remain a JW.

Or are JWs fine with a secular marriage after the secular divorce? That would be an interesting twist, but I imagine the answer is no or this just got even weirder.

[JehovahsWitness]

I think readers get the point. An abuser can hold the right to remarry over the abused even after a legal divorce. Assuming of course the abused wants to remain a JW.

That is correct and I have never said otherwise.

Now you are just contradicting yourself. ...

[nobspeople]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #15]
So if they get divorced, legally, but the church says it's a no-no, are they no longer allowed in the church?

That would depend ; if neither commit adultery then they can carry on as usual (although it is of course far from ideal) . If either take on a sexual relationship or remarries then the one concerned would face a judicial committee and the innocent partner would be free to remarry.

What is the above bolded and how does that work?