The cost of jesus's return?

[nobspeople]

https://www.indy100.com/news/evangelica ... FTVFxbPF_g

What would jesus drive? A Bentley or Rolls, it seems.

For discussion:

How far should religious leaders be allowed to take their claims before they're called out for it by like believers?

[bjs1]

https://www.indy100.com/news/evangelica ... FTVFxbPF_g

What would jesus drive? A Bentley or Rolls, it seems.

For discussion:

How far should religious leaders be allowed to take their claims before they're called out for it by like believers?

The pastor in question has been called out by believers on many occasions. The Trinity Foundation, a Christian organization dedicated to calling out fraud among Christian leaders, has had him on their public watch list for more than a decade.

[tam]

Peace to you.

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

Looks like the guy was called out. Unfortunately, probably not by the people who follow/believe in him (or others like him).

But anything can be questioned, any lie called out. Just because someone is called a 'religious leader' doesn't mean they know what is true, or even that they have received anything from Christ and God. Christ warned about false prophets and false christs, wolves in sheep's clothing. Unfortunately (again), these 'religious leaders' have careers and power because people give those things to them; because many people are looking to man to tell them what to believe, what God wants, how to act.


But we do not affect the time that Christ returns (and certainly not by giving or withholding money from some religious leader). That time has already been appointed by God.


Regardless, anyone should beware of 'preachers' demanding people give them money (or obedience). Christ did not tell His people to demand money from others. He said to GIVE. That is what these religious leaders should be doing if they were truly listening to Christ. These guys might claim that they are distributing some of it to others (I have no idea, because I don't care to listen to them or any of the lies coming out of their mouths), but the fact is that they are making a profit from these things, while happily taking from those who are poor, including widows and orphans. (And they'll use the account about the widow who put in everything she had (Mark 12), to make the poor feel obligated to give, all the while they're still wearing their thousand dollar suits and ten thousand dollar watches, and getting their first class (or private) flights paid for, etc. Certainly not going hungry, or giving all THEY have.)


What you received for free, you give for free (Matt 10:8). If they truly had received from Christ (which would have been for free), then they are obligated to give for free.

People being misled BY these so called 'preachers' might be trying to do what Christ said to do (in regard to giving). But the 'preachers' are not practicing what they preach. In addition, many (if not most) of these religious leaders are atheists. How could they not be? How could a person lie and take from the poor (not to mention the preachers/priests who do the same and even worse to people), if they actually believed there is a God that they are one day going to have to answer to?


Please note, this is not to say anything negative about atheists; atheist just means not believing in God. Someone can be an atheist and an honest, empathetic, compassionate person.



Peace again to you and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[1213]

https://www.indy100.com/news/evangelica ... FTVFxbPF_g

What would jesus drive? A Bentley or Rolls, it seems.

For discussion:

How far should religious leaders be allowed to take their claims before they're called out for it by like believers?

I think all lies should be called. And in these money issues, perhaps the early Christian writings give a good advice:

And when an Apostle goes forth let him accept nothing but bread till he reach his night's lodging; but if he ask for money, he is a false prophet.... ...But whosoever shall say in a spirit "Give me money, or something else," you shall not listen to him...
The Didache X1:6:12
http://www.thedidache.com/

If one is a disciple of Jesus, a Christian, I would recommend to remain in the teachings of Jesus.

This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world for a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matt. 24:14

So, if one hopes the return of the King, it would be good to start to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom.

[nobspeople]

https://www.indy100.com/news/evangelica ... FTVFxbPF_g

What would jesus drive? A Bentley or Rolls, it seems.

For discussion:

How far should religious leaders be allowed to take their claims before they're called out for it by like believers?

The pastor in question has been called out by believers on many occasions. The Trinity Foundation, a Christian organization dedicated to calling out fraud among Christian leaders, has had him on their public watch list for more than a decade.

What needs to be the next step, IYO, for this and other fraudulent preachers? Or is calling them out enough?

[nobspeople]

[Replying to tam in post #3]

Looks like the guy was called out. Unfortunately, probably not by the people who follow/believe in him (or others like him).

Yeah it's doubtful that they 'called him out'. I wonder though: is simply 'calling one out' enough? What do you think?

[tam]

[Replying to tam in post #3]

Looks like the guy was called out. Unfortunately, probably not by the people who follow/believe in him (or others like him).

Yeah it's doubtful that they 'called him out'. I wonder though: is simply 'calling one out' enough? What do you think?

What else is there to do?

Call out the falsehood, hold that claim up to the Light/Christ (comparing the 'preachers' claim to the words and deeds of Christ), and if known, share what is true instead.


What people (including the preacher) do with that is up to them.

Peace again to you.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to tam in post #7]

What else is there to do?

Openly boycott his church?
Start an online petition to let people know what's going on?
Contact the local media to expose him for a fraud?
Contact the IRS to investigate any shady dealings?
Surely you'd want to prevent people from giving him their money, no?

[nobspeople]

[Replying to tam in post #7]

Call out the falsehood, hold that claim up to the Light/Christ (comparing the 'preachers' claim to the words and deeds of Christ), and if known, share what is true instead.

If judging after life is a real thing, holding it to the light of christ seems like a waste of time (as he will be judged for his deeds at some point) - especially for those who gave their oft times hard earned money to a fraud.

What people (including the preacher) do with that is up to them.

Which isn't up for debate. That shouldn't stop people from branding him a fraud publicly and try to stop him, if a fraud is what he is.
Who knows? Maybe he's right? Maybe jesus is a cash cow now in heaven - those roads of gold aren't free. Or are they.....

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #7]

What else is there to do?

Openly boycott his church?
Start an online petition to let people know what's going on?
Contact the local media to expose him for a fraud?
Contact the IRS to investigate any shady dealings?
Surely you'd want to prevent people from giving him their money, no?

The Church is the Body of Christ (the people, not an organization/institution or sect or denomination). So his 'sect' or whatever is not the Church and I already do not take part in it.


As to the rest, people will do what they want - some will remain even if their religious leader (or religious institution) has been exposed as a fraud. They just won't believe it. How many Catholics denied that sexual abuse was running rampant (and being covered up) in the RCC, until the evidence was just too overwhelming to deny? Most still remained. The argument just became 'imperfect men', or 'infiltration', etc. The WTS uses the same excuse, and I imagine others do as well.


If someone who believes in Christ and God does not want to be misled by the wolves in sheep's clothing, then that person should be coming to Christ and remaining in Him and His word.

**

Contacting the media is calling someone out. Just calling someone out using the media. A person can do that, a person can write letters, a person can bear witness to the truth, a person can hold all things up to the Light to see what is true, and perhaps help others see what is true.



Peace again.