Rosary Beads - Is God influenced by Repetition?

[Tcg]

Some Christians use Rosary Beads to keep track of how many times they beg God to act in their favor. Is God influenced by how many times requests are made?


Tcg

[Difflugia]

The magic of the rosary isn't in God answering your prayers as such, but in earning indulgences. A lot of people think that the Church got rid of indulgences shortly after the whole Martin Luther thing, but they just stopped selling them. Finishing a full rosary will get you a plenary indulgence, which means you don't have to receive the punishment for any sins that have been confessed and forgiven. You can also get them for reading the Bible. I think a half hour gets you a plenary indulgence and anything less is a partial indulgence. Somewhere, I have a Catholic Bible from the 1960s with a list inside the cover of all the things that earn indulgences.

The rosary is actually one of the least weird Catholic things. As pointed out already, it really is meditation at heart. The point is to focus on the same prayer over and over again as a mantra, which if done right, has the effect of clearing the mind of all else. The rosary is a way to count the prayers without having to consciously maintain an internal dialog while doing so. The goal is just to focus on nothing but God for a while.

As far as I'm concerned, the best Catholic magic item is the "brown scapular", which is a kind of cloth necklace (symbolic of the "scapular" tunic worn by monks and nuns as part of their habit). If you're wearing it when you die, you go to heaven, full stop. There are miracle stories of people wearing the scapular being grievously injured, but who were then supernaturally prevented from dying until they could receive last rites and such. Also, if you're wearing the scapular, you'll not spend more than a week in Purgatory. The Virgin Mary visits Purgatory every Saturday and takes anybody wearing the scapular straight to heaven. There's even an official coloring book.

[nobspeople]

But to me, it doesn't make a whole lotta' sense.

What about the Rosary doesn't make sense to you?

Repetitive prayer, for one. Seems that would only be necessary if god is hard of hearing. Also don't 'get' praying to saints and Mary and the like that I've seen some catholics do. Surely there's a reason but not being a catholic it doesn't make sense to me.

[TRANSPONDER]

Mindless - or rather Thoughtless - repetition. It rather reminds me of the person who keeps pressing the button on the traffic lights apparently supposing that will make them change quicker. Turning of prayer wheels. The Rote chanting pf prayers. I can't believe that is done for a god's needs and not always for the religion's needs. Though a study on Non -religious propaganda will make it pretty clear what's going on. But there is an element of personal Something got out of it. But anything useful? Anything of Value? Anything that makes a difference to anything? I don't see it. Prayer has no real point. Prayer never had a real point. And yet we have been sold the idea that it is so terribly, terribly important.

[nobspeople]

Mindless - or rather Thoughtless - repetition. It rather reminds me of the person who keeps pressing the button on the traffic lights apparently supposing that will make them change quicker. Turning of prayer wheels. The Rote chanting pf prayers. I can't believe that is done for a god's needs and not always for the religion's needs. Though a study on Non -religious propaganda will make it pretty clear what's going on. But there is an element of personal Something got out of it. But anything useful? Anything of Value? Anything that makes a difference to anything? I don't see it. Prayer has no real point. Prayer never had a real point. And yet we have been sold the idea that it is so terribly, terribly important.

I can't agree that prayer has no real point. While I don't see it being received by any deity, I've seen, at times (though not all the time) prayer does benefit the person praying. If it makes them feel good and harms no one else, I say pray away!
What causes me to cringe is when people only pray when there's other things they could also be doing to help the situation. Again, much of this goes back to people being lazy: it's easier to chant something in your mind than go to the doctor, or look for another job or whatever the case may be.

[benchwarmer]

But to me, it doesn't make a whole lotta' sense.

What about the Rosary doesn't make sense to you?

Repetitive prayer, for one. Seems that would only be necessary if god is hard of hearing. Also don't 'get' praying to saints and Mary and the like that I've seen some catholics do. Surely there's a reason but not being a catholic it doesn't make sense to me.

Technically Catholics are asking Mary and the saints to pray for them (i.e. like you would ask your friend to pray for you). When one thinks about it though, it still seems pointless. Basically what they are hoping is that Mary can bend the ear of God, but apparently God is currently ignoring their own pleas for help. This also gets into the whole issue of changing God's mind. In other words, prayer seems to be pointless as far as getting God to actually do something (since He should be already doing it if it's something good and useful already).

Of course we get the tired apologetic that God will not violate anyone's free will (all the while ignoring scripture where that happens) and thus will not simply heal people without them asking for it. That seems ludicrous to me. I'm pretty sure nobody wants to suffer a long, painful death or watch their loved ones do so. Yet apparently we must pray fervently that God will do God's will (while failing to see the problem there...)

So basically all that's left is a method to meditate. Well, that and of course what Difflugia already pointed out about getting an indulgence to avoid punishment and/or purgatory (which seems like 'getting something from God' now doesn't it?)

[nobspeople]

But to me, it doesn't make a whole lotta' sense.

What about the Rosary doesn't make sense to you?

Repetitive prayer, for one. Seems that would only be necessary if god is hard of hearing. Also don't 'get' praying to saints and Mary and the like that I've seen some catholics do. Surely there's a reason but not being a catholic it doesn't make sense to me.

Technically Catholics are asking Mary and the saints to pray for them (i.e. like you would ask your friend to pray for you). When one thinks about it though, it still seems pointless. Basically what they are hoping is that Mary can bend the ear of God, but apparently God is currently ignoring their own pleas for help. This also gets into the whole issue of changing God's mind. In other words, prayer seems to be pointless as far as getting God to actually do something (since He should be already doing it if it's something good and useful already).

Of course we get the tired apologetic that God will not violate anyone's free will (all the while ignoring scripture where that happens) and thus will not simply heal people without them asking for it. That seems ludicrous to me. I'm pretty sure nobody wants to suffer a long, painful death or watch their loved ones do so. Yet apparently we must pray fervently that God will do God's will (while failing to see the problem there...)

So basically all that's left is a method to meditate. Well, that and of course what Difflugia already pointed out about getting an indulgence to avoid punishment and/or purgatory (which seems like 'getting something from God' now doesn't it?)

When I said 'praying to Mary and the saints' I meant why is that even necessary for them going to god for you. I guess I was raised to think there's a direct means to god (personal line) if one wants it and asking someone else to do it seems a rather unnecessary step.
That said, do catholics ever pray to god directly - not using saints or Mary or the like? If not, that seems to me that god isn't as personal as I'd like a deity to be. That and confession. A lot of weirdness to me. But hey: that's just my 2¢
As far as 'free will', I never bought that at all. Again, my 2 pennies.
In regards to 'getting something from god' that's the entire religion as far as I can see. You do what god tells you not to make god happy but to get to heaven and have... well...whatever they want of think it to be. Selfishness, ultimately.

[historia]

But to me, it doesn't make a whole lotta' sense.

What about the Rosary doesn't make sense to you?

Repetitive prayer, for one. Seems that would only be necessary if god is hard of hearing.

As noted above, it is a meditation. Diffugia explained this well, so I'll just quote him:

The point is to focus on the same prayer over and over again as a mantra, which if done right, has the effect of clearing the mind of all else. The rosary is a way to count the prayers without having to consciously maintain an internal dialog while doing so. The goal is just to focus on nothing but God for a while.

Your other question:

That said, do catholics ever pray to god directly - not using saints or Mary or the like?

Sure. Just staying within the Rosary itself, there are two main prayers, the Hail Mary and the Lord's Prayer. While the first asks Mary to "pray for us sinners," the second is directed to "Our Father who art in Heaven," and so is put to God directly.

[TRANSPONDER]

Mindless - or rather Thoughtless - repetition. It rather reminds me of the person who keeps pressing the button on the traffic lights apparently supposing that will make them change quicker. Turning of prayer wheels. The Rote chanting pf prayers. I can't believe that is done for a god's needs and not always for the religion's needs. Though a study on Non -religious propaganda will make it pretty clear what's going on. But there is an element of personal Something got out of it. But anything useful? Anything of Value? Anything that makes a difference to anything? I don't see it. Prayer has no real point. Prayer never had a real point. And yet we have been sold the idea that it is so terribly, terribly important.

I can't agree that prayer has no real point. While I don't see it being received by any deity, I've seen, at times (though not all the time) prayer does benefit the person praying. If it makes them feel good and harms no one else, I say pray away!
What causes me to cringe is when people only pray when there's other things they could also be doing to help the situation. Again, much of this goes back to people being lazy: it's easier to chant something in your mind than go to the doctor, or look for another job or whatever the case may be.

I agree. If people want to pray, let them pray. I am aware that it can have therapeutic and confidence -building effects. It is only a problem when it intrudes on rational and practical solutions to doing things and (given that parents do have rights in how their children are brought up) prayer and other religious shibboleths are wished, inflicted and forced on those who don't want it.

[nobspeople]

Mindless - or rather Thoughtless - repetition. It rather reminds me of the person who keeps pressing the button on the traffic lights apparently supposing that will make them change quicker. Turning of prayer wheels. The Rote chanting pf prayers. I can't believe that is done for a god's needs and not always for the religion's needs. Though a study on Non -religious propaganda will make it pretty clear what's going on. But there is an element of personal Something got out of it. But anything useful? Anything of Value? Anything that makes a difference to anything? I don't see it. Prayer has no real point. Prayer never had a real point. And yet we have been sold the idea that it is so terribly, terribly important.

I can't agree that prayer has no real point. While I don't see it being received by any deity, I've seen, at times (though not all the time) prayer does benefit the person praying. If it makes them feel good and harms no one else, I say pray away!
What causes me to cringe is when people only pray when there's other things they could also be doing to help the situation. Again, much of this goes back to people being lazy: it's easier to chant something in your mind than go to the doctor, or look for another job or whatever the case may be.

I agree. If people want to pray, let them pray. I am aware that it can have therapeutic and confidence -building effects. It is only a problem when it intrudes on rational and practical solutions to doing things and (given that parents do have rights in how their children are brought up) prayer and other religious shibboleths are wished, inflicted and forced on those who don't want it.

There is something to be said about the potential negative effects of prayer on those that don't want it (children for example). But, as parents, everything we say and do is, in some fashion, absorbed into normal functioning children.
I have a friend that works at a bank (small, local bank). And every morning, they have to join in a prayer. When he worked in the family business, he would always get little prayers left on his desk. Seems this guy just can't (or won't) get away from it as he refuses to move 'to the big city'. But that's a whole other issue.....

[TRANSPONDER]

It is. In fact it reared its' tripartite (if not actually ugly) head when the debate popped up: 'Freedom of religion does not mean freedom From religion'. A whole other discussion. Feel free to start a dedicated thread.