Reasons to get to heaven

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nobspeople
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Reasons to get to heaven

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

I was told by some, the main reason one should want to get to heaven is so they can praise god for eternity.
Is this correct? God seems to be needy and wants all attention focused on (You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them, for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God...)
So it seems that this thinking of praising god forever is apt.
But is it?
Many will say 'I will see [insert dead loved one's name here] soon/on the other side/etc'
It seems these people want to socialize with those they've lost, making heaven an elite social club. Add if the city is, indeed, gold-like (or of gold: “The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass”) that seems apt (guess even god loves gold - you'd have thunk it?!?).

So who's correct: those that say heaven is a place to kiss god's... feet... or a place to see dead loved ones?

For discussion: What's the literal, physical characteristics of heaven and what will happen to those that make it there?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #31

Post by brunumb »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:59 am
brunumb wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:44 am This is supposed to be a forum for debate, not a chat room for people sharing their beliefs.
I see nothing in the guidelines that prohibits sharing ones beliefs / opinions, especially when asked directly about them as has been the case.
I see nothing in your posts that amounts to substantiation of your claims and opinions. So it's really just an opportunity for a lot of subliminal proselytising.
Christianty: 2000 years of making it up as you go along.

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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #32

Post by JehovahsWitness »

brunumb wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:12 pm

I see nothing in your posts that amounts to substantiation of your claims...
I made no claims I made statements of belief. I see nothing in the guidelines that prohibits making statements of belief.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:14 am
NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses
And here ...
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:40 am
Firstly may I point out that I make no claims here, I am simply expressing what I believe based on the bible. Please take all sentences to be preceeded by the premise "I believe ..."


Are you asking me To prove my beliefs?

otseng wrote: There is no rule that says anyone has to prove anything. If someone insists you must prove something, challenge them where is it a requirement on the forum that something needs to be proved.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #33

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Diagoras wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:58 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:14 am
Diagoras wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:49 pm
"Things would be a lot better if I were in charge" tends to be the product of an uncritical mind.
That is not what is being said; rather "things will be a lot better when GOD is in charge". Logically speaking a government in the hands of a loving and all powerful God would [be] better than government in the power of limited (albeit well meaning) imperfect humans.
As I don't believe that God exists, this would be the equivalent of saying, "things will be a lot better when no-one is in charge".



Yes I know. But hypothetically speaking, if a loving God did exist, logically speaking a government in the hands of a loving and all powerful God would [be] better than government in the power of limited (albeit well meaning) imperfect humans
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #34

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Diagoras wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:58 pm
A critical mind can objectively look at history and come to some reasonable conclusions: 6000 years of human governments has not eliminated war, hunger, corruption, injustice and suffering.
You're not alone in this view..
It's not just a "view" it's a fact. Unless you are claiming war, hunger, corruption, injustice and suffering have been eliminated ? Are you?
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #35

Post by Diagoras »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #34]

The objective facts in evidence from 6000 years of human history are that human societies have improved.

People have a good track record, overall. God - not so much...

Did you have any comment about the links and graphs I shared?

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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #36

Post by JoeyKnothead »

brunumb wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:44 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:16 pm May I point out that I make no claims here, I am simply expressing what I believe based on the bible. Please take all sentences to be preceeded by the premise "I believe ..."
Please take all responses to your posts to be preceded by the question "Why should we give a toss about what you believe if you are unable to demonstrate that any of it is true". This is supposed to be a forum for debate, not a chat room for people sharing their beliefs.
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Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #37

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Diagoras wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:47 pm People have a good track record, overall.
Does that good track record, overall include eliminating war, hunger, corruption, injustice and suffering?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #38

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:48 am
Diagoras wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:47 pm People have a good track record, overall.
Does that good track record, overall include eliminating war, hunger, corruption, injustice and suffering?
Compared to a perfect being (AKA god) drowning 99.99% of the population of terrestrial life because it got a burr up in there; allowing mankind to sin then complain about it to the point of 'having' to offer a 'sacrifice'; allowing its followers to argue amongst themselves for centuries when it had every opportunity and reason to set the record straight once and for all; when not offering proof, only faith? Compared to all that, seems like imperfect humanity isn't doing so bad. Especially, considering perfect god hasn't eliminated war, hunger, corruption, injustice and suffering itself, either.
God couldn't even control 2 people and a fallen angel in the garden!
All in due time, right?
"Just keep suffering and having faith in me, you little critters! Don't forget to give up everything and follow me in the interim. Oh and remember to keep dem dollars rollin' in!"
Yeah. Bravo-o! =D> =D>
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #39

Post by Purple Knight »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:20 pm But hypothetically speaking, if a loving God did exist, logically speaking a government in the hands of a loving and all powerful God would [be] better than government in the power of limited (albeit well meaning) imperfect humans
This is actually true even if God doesn't exist. People are only required to think he does - to think they'll be rewarded or punished based on what they do - to behave more honourably. In this way a religious nation might have a government in the hands of God even if there is no God, and if they really believe they're probably not going to sell out.

Now I have always said, that's not really morality, that's fear, that's the simple Pavlovian response which even a dog has, but I do think atheism has to take some blame for the fact that the political system is so corrupt because these politicians are real people really hurting other people and it doesn't really matter to the people they're hurting if they're simply frightened into behaving rather than behaving because they know they ought to.

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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #40

Post by Diagoras »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:48 am
Diagoras wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:47 pm People have a good track record, overall.
Does that good track record, overall include eliminating war, hunger, corruption, injustice and suffering?
Is there a serious (and relevant to the thread) point to be made by forcing me to 'admit' that human society has not yet eliminated these problems? You appear to be claiming that because human government isn't 'perfect', the world should be run by God (possibly with the assistance of ex-milkmaids and the like).

For any claim even remotely similar to this to have any soundness about it, you would have to show that the track record of a world run by God was at least closer to this standard of perfection. You've already posted this:

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:16 pm The unrighteous will be dead ( killed at Armageddon)
- which I suppose is one way of 'eliminating' war and hunger: just murder those other few billion people that don't praise you.

But since that's still to come in the future (supposedly), it might be unjust to convict God of a 'thought crime'. Better to focus on his history of 'cruelty and violence' as documented throughout the Bible.

Bringing this back to 'reasons to get to heaven', I'm guessing that from your earlier responses, one reason would be to be given the 'honour of serving' as a ruler. I'm therefore simply pointing out evidence to the contrary as to why 'heavenly rulers' wouldn't in fact be much good for the people left on Earth.

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