Reasons to get to heaven

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nobspeople
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Reasons to get to heaven

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

I was told by some, the main reason one should want to get to heaven is so they can praise god for eternity.
Is this correct? God seems to be needy and wants all attention focused on (You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them, for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God...)
So it seems that this thinking of praising god forever is apt.
But is it?
Many will say 'I will see [insert dead loved one's name here] soon/on the other side/etc'
It seems these people want to socialize with those they've lost, making heaven an elite social club. Add if the city is, indeed, gold-like (or of gold: “The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass”) that seems apt (guess even god loves gold - you'd have thunk it?!?).

So who's correct: those that say heaven is a place to kiss god's... feet... or a place to see dead loved ones?

For discussion: What's the literal, physical characteristics of heaven and what will happen to those that make it there?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #61

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:42 amIt seems these people want to socialize with those they've lost ...
I dont think there is anything "wrong" with longing to be with those we have lost in death. Anyone that has lost someone, a husband wife, a beloved father mother friend or sibling, knows it can be a terribly painful experience and missing them (or wanting to be with them again ) is entirely natural and nothing to belittle, dismiss or mock.
The bible does offer the hope of being with dead loved ones, promising what it calls a resurrection, when the dead will return in healthy bodies to be reunited with those they love. There are good reasons to believe such promises as they come from a loving God who both expressed his desire and power to wipe out death forever.

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To learn more please go to other posts related to...

LIFE, THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD and ...RESURRECTION

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WHAT is "a resurrection"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 13#p832213

Can a resurrection be seen as a kind of recreation?
viewtopic.php?p=1030474#p1030474

What hope is there for our dead loved ones?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 51#p851451

Is there reason to believe de can be with our dead loved ones again? [this post]
viewtopic.php?p=1063110#p1063110

Why in the bible is death likened to sleep?
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Through who is the resurrection made possible?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 29#p846329


PLEASE NOTE I make no claims here, I am simply expressing what I believe based on the bible. Please take all sentences to be preceeded by the premise "I believe ..."
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #62

Post by Tcg »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:05 am
The bible does offer the hope of being with dead loved ones, promising what it calls a resurrection, when the dead will return in healthy bodies to be reunited with those they love.
Well, not for all of course. Some that have been characterized as "human garbage" are out of luck. Of course, neither the threat of annihilation nor the promise of some rosy future can be supported so there's no reason to fear the negative or to expect the positive. At least in this sub-forum, what the bible offers hope of or suggests what to fear is irrelevant unless its claims can be supported by something other than the bible. I'm guessing that won't happen.


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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #63

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Diagoras wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:33 pm
But as a way of observing and interacting with the real world on a daily basis, it falls short of being practical.
This point has already been addressed using logic.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:57 pm



Even humans have developped wireless communication, "voice to skull" technology and no doubt holograms are not too far in the future ... how much more could be done by superior life forms!
I do not pretend to know how interealm communication would develop or by what means God's government will transmit its directives or wishes, but logically there is no valid reason to conclude it would be impossible given the biblical pattern.


You rejected the reasoning above because logic is problematic for you at least when it comes to anaysis'of the biblical texts on this topic. Biblically even "low level spirits" can manipulate matter, speak to humans, move physical objets even control human bodies, it is illogical therefore to conclude if *a spirit can do this and more and if humans are lower life forms, then a spirit run government would have any difficulty communicating with its human subjects.

But then as I said, I use logic,







JW


*
I usually use conditionals ( ... or suppositions, hypothesis etc ) when discussing God in this subforum in order to respect forum guidelines while also avoiding making any absolute claims in this regard.This hopefully avoids being sidetracked by challenges to prove God's existence when that is not the point of discussion.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #64

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Diagoras wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:33 pm

I may come across as slightly flippant when I ask about milkmaids and fax machines, but the driving force behind my posts in this thread is to find out whether people who believe in heaven have ever given much thought as to how it might 'work'.
As for your comments that amount to "once a milkmaid; always a milkmaid" all that did was show how ugly and small minded prejudice and sexism is. I'm not calling YOU a small-minded elitist or a sexiste but such "pigeonholding" illustrates how unjust and dare I say it illogical such an objection is.
Even in our present world people rise above the circumstances of their birth to become heads of industries, top politicians, human rights activiste, religious leaders and educators ... to suggest a mere "milkmaid" should never be elevated to a postion of leadership because she could never be anything but ignorant and illiterate is beyond snobbery.

So, while it is true, many who claim to believe in heaven do not seem to have any idea what the biblical heaven is and why people are called there, that is not the case for Jehovahs Witnesses. Heaven and the kingdom government is a basic JW teaching which we are all helped to understand before joining; and while scripture doesn't answer all our questions in this regard, it gives us enough information to believe in it.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #65

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Tcg wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:21 am At least in this sub-forum, what the bible ... is irrelevant unless its claims can be supported by something other than the bible.
RELEVANCE : Whether something Is considered relevant is entirely dependent on what is being discussed and what is hoped to be achieved.
What the bible has to say is indeed totally relevant in a discussion if the aim is to expose and possibly understand Christian dogma. It is relevant in a discussion which seeks to compare various Christian teachings and, of course, it is relevant if one is simply interested in what the bible has to say and why Christians believe as they do. All of which are things I have seen introduced in OPs and examined in this subforum without sanction.
If you personally consider all the above irrelevant because your own goal is to know whether the details therein are true or not you are welcome to open a thread stipulating that specific aim and await participant.

Have an excellent day,


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #66

Post by Diagoras »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #60]

Probably easiest then if you don’t answer a simple question. Your pattern of equivocation and taking quotes out of context becomes more trouble than its worth.

It’s been fun in parts at least.

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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #67

Post by JehovahsWitness »

brunumb wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:55 pm

I'm sure even devout Christians could recognise a thoroughly boring eternal existence when they see it.
Of that I'm convinced however, I dont recall ever meeting a Christian that feared eternal life would fall into such a catagory. As one of Jehovahs Witnesses I hope to live forever in earth and do NOT believe I will ever tire of all that such a life has to offer.

I have never met a Christian who entertained a hope of living forever in heaven express a fear it would be boring.





JW

FURTHER READING Paradise on earth: Fantacy or Reality?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2017130



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Will paradise be boring?
viewtopic.php?p=1015435#p1015435
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THE KINGDOM, THE MILLENIUM and ...THE EARTHLY PARADISE
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #68

Post by JoeyKnothead »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:26 am ...
What the bible has to say is indeed totally relevant in a discussion if the aim is to expose and possibly understand Christian dogma.
...
Christians seem well versed in the dogma of biblical claims, but poorly lacking in showing those claims are truth.

Then so many of em pride themselves on trying to come into C&A using TD&D rules as cover.

I reckon though, when truth ain't on your side, ya do the best you can.
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

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nobspeople
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Re: Reasons to get to heaven

Post #69

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:05 am
nobspeople wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:42 amIt seems these people want to socialize with those they've lost ...
I dont think there is anything "wrong" with longing to be with those we have lost in death. Anyone that has lost someone, a husband wife, a beloved father mother friend or sibling, knows it can be a terribly painful experience and missing them (or wanting to be with them again ) is entirely natural and nothing to belittle, dismiss or mock.
The bible does offer the hope of being with dead loved ones, promising what it calls a resurrection, when the dead will return in healthy bodies to be reunited with those they love. There are good reasons to believe such promises as they come from a loving God who both expressed his desire and power to wipe out death forever.

Image
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

LIFE, THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD and ...RESURRECTION

RELATED POSTS

WHAT is "a resurrection"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 13#p832213

Can a resurrection be seen as a kind of recreation?
viewtopic.php?p=1030474#p1030474

What hope is there for our dead loved ones?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 51#p851451

Is there reason to believe de can be with our dead loved ones again? [this post]
viewtopic.php?p=1063110#p1063110

Why in the bible is death likened to sleep?
viewtopic.php?p=1025031#p1025031

Through who is the resurrection made possible?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 29#p846329


PLEASE NOTE I make no claims here, I am simply expressing what I believe based on the bible. Please take all sentences to be preceeded by the premise "I believe ..."
I would agree.
However, I've heard some christians say the ONLY reason to get to heaven is to praise god for eternity (not that they can even understand eternity). Which is why I asked the question.
Thanks for the input.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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