Reasons to get to heaven

[nobspeople]

I was told by some, the main reason one should want to get to heaven is so they can praise god for eternity.
Is this correct? God seems to be needy and wants all attention focused on (You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them, for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God...)
So it seems that this thinking of praising god forever is apt.
But is it?
Many will say 'I will see [insert dead loved one's name here] soon/on the other side/etc'
It seems these people want to socialize with those they've lost, making heaven an elite social club. Add if the city is, indeed, gold-like (or of gold: “The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass”) that seems apt (guess even god loves gold - you'd have thunk it?!?).

So who's correct: those that say heaven is a place to kiss god's... feet... or a place to see dead loved ones?

For discussion: What's the literal, physical characteristics of heaven and what will happen to those that make it there?

[1213]

That might explain why there are even devout Christians who are in no hurry to shuffle off this mortal coil.

Do you mean that "devout Christians" don't want "righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit"?

I'm sure even devout Christians could recognise a thoroughly boring eternal existence when they see it.

Have you ever experienced "righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit"?

[nobspeople]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

Apparently one also has a view of the torture of those who didn't make it. Kind of a 'royal viewing gallery' as it were. So while you are not busy kissing ... feet ..., playing your harp, or endlessly droning on about how great God is you can be reminded of your friends and loved ones that failed to believe:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

Sounds great ... not.

I would much rather it (if it exists) be a place where EVERYONE makes it and upon so doing, are given the full picture and realize all the mistakes that we have made. We can then spend eternity getting to know everyone when they all have the full information about everything. One big party. No feet kissing necessary (unless you are into that sorta thing and then have at it).

Sounds like, well, heaven!
To me, heaven and hell are what people make of it.

[Diagoras]

Biblically*, heaven is not a physical place but a spiritual realm.

... and what will happen to those that make it there?

They will, according to scripture, make up a new global government to rule over the inhabitants of the earth.

I'm considerably puzzled as to how this could work.

For one thing, if heaven is purely a 'spiritual realm', while the inhabitants of the earth reside in a physical realm, how is the 'ruling' going to be conducted and enforced? Is there some form of angelic police force that can (somehow) flit between realms?

To what degree will these spirit rulers get involved with people on earth anyway? Will they act like a sort of combined Congress and Supreme Court? Will they rule purely by whim, or will they allow the actual people on earth some semblance of control over their lives? The former seems open to abuse (to take the kindest interpretation - tyranny might be a more appropriate word), while the latter sets up these heavenly rulers for an eternity of committee hearings, appeals and the like. Do all new rulers have the skills and temperament to take on this role?

The work of any 'global government' is going to be considerable. I underline that word to emphasise that the version of 'heaven' you're presenting doesn't seem like it will be much of a reward. Working for the government for eternity? No thanks!

Furthermore, I'm assuming that suitably 'righteous' people ascending to heaven can come from any time since even before Jesus was crucified, right? I recall from another thread that the common belief amongst Christians is that until Armageddon, those that die are kept 'sleeping' by God until the time comes to set up the New Earth and its heavenly rulers. Is that more or less a fair representation of your position? If so, then how might a young, illiterate Catholic Irish milkmaid from the twelfth century (as a hypothetical example), on reaching heaven, be expected to do a good job of helping to rule over the New Earth?

I can see the superficial attraction that such imaginings might hold on some people: those poor in unpleasant working conditions who see their boss enjoying vast amounts of wealth. The fantasy that after death, the 'tables will turn' and they get to be in charge would be extremely appealing.

"Things would be a lot better if I were in charge" tends to be the product of an uncritical mind. That seems to be the case with 'heaven', taken to the absurd extreme.

[JehovahsWitness]

Is there some form of angelic police force that can (somehow) flit between realms?

Righteous people don't need policing.

The unrighteous will be dead ( killed at Harmageddon)



JW








RELATED POSTS

Will there be any earthly (human) representatives of the government for administrative oversight?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 82#p944282

Can we see evidence of Kingdom action today?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 65#p835865

What measures has the Kingdom already taken? [Q&A]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 88#p835788

What will those ruling in this government (The Kingdom) actually DO in the future?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 22#p878622

Will Jesus travel back and forth between heaven and earth during the millenium?
viewtopic.php?p=1051377#p1051377

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GOD'S KINGDOM, MILLENIAL RULE and ...1914

NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

[JehovahsWitness]

Firstly may I point out that I make no claims here, I am simply expressing what I believe based on the bible. Please take all sentences to be preceeded by the premise "I believe ..."

Do all new rulers have the skills and temperament to take on this role?

They have been chosen by God (who can read all hearts), they will be perfect and they will work under Christs direction so I think we can have confident they will be up to the task and will remain free from corruption.

... I'm assuming that suitably 'righteous' people ascending to heaven can come from any time since even before Jesus was crucified, right?

No, wrong. Jesus hand picked the first 12 of the total 144,000 and explained only born again Christians would be chosen as government Ministers.

... how might a young, illiterate Catholic Irish milkmaid from the twelfth century (as a hypothetical example), on reaching heaven, be expected to do a good job of helping to rule over the New Earth?

Why would she not ? She would not be resurrected as a human but as a mighty spirit person, probably capable instantaneously reading all languages (at the same time). Angels are VASTLY superior lifeforms to humans and the 144,000 will be superior to the angels.





Will they act like a sort of combined Congress and Supreme Court?

It is Gods kingdom, it is not a democracy but a THEOCRACY:

ISAIAH 33:22

For Jehovah is our Judge, Jehovah is our Lawgiver, Jehovah is our King; He is the One who will save us.

A BIG JOB

The work of any 'global government' is going to be considerable. I underline that word to emphasise that the version of 'heaven' you're presenting doesn't seem like it will be much of a reward. Working for the government for eternity?

Jesus Christ and the 144,000 are not working for the government, they ARE the government. They will Be working for GOD for the benefit of mankind. Yes, it will be a considerable amount of work but the righteous love to work for God and view it as a great privilege and a reward.

JOHN 5:17 - New Living Translation

But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

HEAVEN , GOD'S KINGDOM and ... THE 144, 000

[Diagoras]

Is there some form of angelic police force that can (somehow) flit between realms?

Righteous people don't need policing.

The unrighteous will be dead ( killed at Harmageddon)

So what’s the role of a ‘ruler’ here? A ruler implies rules, which are another word for laws.

[JehovahsWitness]

Is there some form of angelic police force that can (somehow) flit between realms?

Righteous people don't need policing.

The unrighteous will be dead ( killed at Harmageddon)

So what’s the role of a ‘ruler’ here? A ruler implies rules, which are another word for laws.

The rules /laws serve to govern (organise) society.





RELATED POSTS

Why will we need law in a righteous new world ?
viewtopic.php?p=1062218#p1062218

[Diagoras]

Do all new rulers have the skills and temperament to take on this role?

They have been chosen by God (who can read all hearts), they will be perfect and they will work under Christs direction so I think we can have confident they will be up to the task and will remain free from corruption.

<bolding mine>

Perfection in what sense? I think you are focusing on their law-abiding nature, while I’m more concerned with their intellectual capacity to organise society.

Especially when, after a few thousand years, their spiritual nature makes it difficult to connect with physical beings anymore. We complain about government here being ‘remote’!

Jesus Christ and the 144,000 are not working for the government, they ARE the government. They will Be working for GOD for the benefit of mankind. Yes, it will be a considerable amount of work but the righteous love to work for God and view it as a great privilege and a reward.

How exactly does a spirit organise society? They don’t have access to physical things like paper, phones or congregational databases. Will they perhaps learn how to perform miracles, like the feeding of the multitude?

Serious question: if you had the power to replace your own government (assuming the U.S or the U.K) with a theocracy, would you make that change?

[JehovahsWitness]

Do all new rulers have the skills and temperament to take on this role?

They have been chosen by God (who can read all hearts), they will be perfect and they will work under Christs direction so I think we can have confident they will be up to the task and will remain free from corruption.

<bolding mine>

Perfection in what sense? I think you are focusing on their law-abiding nature, while I’m more concerned with their intellectual capacity to organise society.

(See edit - paragraph #2)

... I recall from another thread that the common belief amongst Christians is that until Armageddon, those that die are kept 'sleeping' [remain dead] ... until the time comes to set up the New Earth and its heavenly rulers. Is that more or less a fair representation of your position?

Yes the above is correct.

[JehovahsWitness]

...after a few thousand years, their spiritual nature makes it difficult to connect with physical beings anymore...

And you know this how? From being a spirit or from interviewing them?

We complain about government here being ‘remote’!

We complain about imperfect human governments being remote. God perfectly understands the human heart, since he made it and this same omniscient God has handpicked his government with Jesus who will train them. God knows perfectly well if Christ and the 144,000 he has picked will forget their human experience or become indifferent to the human plight.

HEBREWS 4:15 - English Standard Version

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

JW


May I point out that I make no claims here, I am simply expressing what I believe based on the bible. Please take all sentences to be preceeded by the premise "I believe ..."