Would you still believe if....

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nobspeople
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Would you still believe if....

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

God (the modern, christian interpretation of) were to be a mortal race of advanced beings?

Looking at the bible itself, the OT god seems all vengeful, angry and serious, while the NT god seems to be about loving, kindness, forgiveness and, for lack of a better term, providing a 'way' out of the mess made by the OT god.

Looking at all the miracle pontificated about in the bible, you see a lot of 'natural' causes - floods, insects for examples - that one would think, would be beneath a supreme supernatural being. If a being can do anything (aka god, creator of all that is) why use water to kill? Why not simply 'pull a Thanos'? A simple finger snap. Or a thought. Or, use some sort of here-to-fore unknown source of power that can't be explained. Why not only 'wow' humanity but humble them beyond reason?

So, to me, it seems this can-do-anything-god that so many worshipped doesn't live up to the hype and is, relatively, simple in its actions.

Add to this all the other 'gods' from other cultures - many of which share the same or very, very similar stories, and I wonder how immortal and supernatural god actually is. Why can't these gods be a race of supreme, but mortal and flawed, beings? Surely humans could seem that way to ants. Or fish. Imagine the stories a fish would have to tell his friends once he's caught, removed from his environment, then returned!

So, if gods (including your god) were shown to be a mortal, flawed, supreme (by human standards) being, would it change you you see it? Would it change how you worship it?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #11

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:48 am
nobspeople wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:57 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:44 am
alexxcJRO wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:54 am
Together with bible saying God is omnipotent, [and ] impotent ...an incoherent concept-logical impossibility.
Obviously being simultaneously "omnipotent, [and ] impotent ..." is a logical impossibility but the bible does not say this is the case.


JW
I've found that logic and the bible don't go well together:
plague of insects and frogs, drowning the planet, talking and burning bush that doesn't get consumed....
If god can do all these illogical things, logic need not apply

Who are you telling me that? What was that got to do with what I just posted? I said the bible does not say God is simultaneously "omnipotent, [and ] impotent ..." do you have something you would'like to ask or challenge me on related to my statement ?



JW
Really?!?
You spoke of an "logical impossibility". I pointed out that logic need not apply to things of the bible as much of it is illogical.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #12

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:00 pm

I pointed out that logic need not apply to things of the bible as much of it is illogical.
Okay I don't see that as falsifying anything I said, do you? If so, what and how? If not, thanks for sharing.


Goodbye



JW
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

nobspeople
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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #13

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:18 pm
nobspeople wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:00 pm

I pointed out that logic need not apply to things of the bible as much of it is illogical.
Okay I don't see that as falsifying anything I said, do you? If so, what and how? If not, thanks for sharing.


Goodbye



JW
I suppose it depends on the person asked
Saying something is an logical impossibility but believing the illogical things of the bible is somewhat hypocritical. - or the very least misguided.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #14

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:27 pm
Saying something is an logical impossibility but believing the illogical things of the bible is somewhat hypocritical. - or the very least misguided.
Did I mention belief ? Why are you talking to me about belief? I didnt say anything about belief I only mentioned the content.






JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #15

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:00 pm
nobspeople wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:27 pm
Saying something is an logical impossibility but believing the illogical things of the bible is somewhat hypocritical. - or the very least misguided.
Did I mention belief ? Why are you talking to me about belief? I didnt say anything about belief I only mentioned the content.


JW
Oh, you don't believe the bible is true?
Congrats!
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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William
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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #16

Post by William »

So, if gods (including your god) were shown to be a mortal, flawed, supreme (by human standards) being, would it change you you see it? Would it change how you worship it?
Are gods mortal? Flawed?

If an advanced specie were the source of biblical writ [even loosely] should they be worshipped?

Search "Worship".


the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.

Search "Deity"
divine status, quality, or nature.
the creator and supreme being


Extraterrestrials would have to be considered a natural evolved specie rather than the creator[s] of the universe.
AS such they could not be considered "The creator and supreme being"

There are biblical references to 'messengers' [angels] who were recognized as 'supreme' and folk would prostrate themselves before them [in their presence] and this could allude to a natural [human] response to such recognition...not through fear or coercion.

I am reminded of a cosmology I read many years ago which the Primary Creator has words attributed to it.
All of your religions teach the worship of a deity and a doctrine of human salvation. It is the underlying kinship of your planet's religions. However, I am not the deity that your worship falls upon, nor am I the creator of your doctrines of human salvation. Worship of me in coin or moral consideration is unnecessary. Simply express your authentic feelings of appreciation to my inmost presence within you and others, and you broadcast your worship unfailingly into my realm. ~ Attributed to "First Source" re WingMakers Cosmology
{Mind Blown}

This itself reminded me of another saying on the subject which I learned during the Christian section of my 'Wake up and smell the roses' walk [currently still unfolding].

Search "What did Jesus say about worship?"

What did Jesus say about worship?
First, Jesus' Sermon on the Mount is filled with lessons about worship: God blesses worshippers (Matt 5:3-12), Worshippers are salt and light to the world ( Matt 5:13-16), Worshippers must obey God's commands (Matt 5:17-20), Anger and worship (5:21-26), Thoughts matter (5:27-30), Promises (Matt 5:33-37), Always act ...


My position to date on the matter is that IF a specie came "from the sky" [or from the earth for that matter] who would then benevolently instruct Humans on the best way forward, I would humbly accept, even with head bowed.

We pups have to know or place in the scheme of things.

Right now, our Alpha Brethren are confusing us, so are no help at all, thus I cannot humbly submit nor bow my head to them in humility.

Oops. Sorry for the meandering...

To make obscure, unclear, or unintelligible.

or:

Even when I Am being Bad – I try to be Good about it.

Choices.
Related by numerical value to;
Right
Shift
Attached
Doubt
Think
Elohim
Choices

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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #17

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:22 pm
Oh, you don't believe the bible is true?
Congrats!
If you would like go ask me about my personal beliefs, feel free to ask me about them in a more appropriate subforum ...

Here is a link
viewforum.php?f=26

At the moment in this thread I made a comment about the text in the bible not about my feelings.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

nobspeople
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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #18

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:57 pm
nobspeople wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:22 pm
Oh, you don't believe the bible is true?
Congrats!
If you would like go ask me about my personal beliefs, feel free to ask me about them in a more appropriate subforum ...

Here is a link
viewforum.php?f=26

At the moment in this thread I made a comment about the text in the bible not about my feelings.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
I didn't ask. Nor care at this time.
You said "Obviously being simultaneously "omnipotent, [and ] impotent ..." is a logical impossibility..."
To which I responded using logic for the bible is pointless for those that accept the bible (and texts there-in) (which would include christians, of which you claim to be one).
I would say sorry you can't see the flow there, but I believe you do, you're simply trying to side step it.
Par for the course, I suppose. :roll:
Happy posting! :wave:
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #19

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:06 pmI didn't ask.
nobspeople wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:22 pmOh, you don't believe the bible is true?
Okay. You didnt ask me about my beliefs...
nobspeople wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:22 pmOh, you don't believe the bible is true?
Well, if you ever do want to as me if I ... {quote}"believe the bible is true?"... I'm sure you will know how to put it so I can identify if I am being asked a question or not.






Happy posting to you too and may I add, please have a most excellent evening,




JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Would you still believe if....

Post #20

Post by Purple Knight »

nobspeople wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:01 amSo, if gods (including your god) were shown to be a mortal, flawed, supreme (by human standards) being, would it change you you see it? Would it change how you worship it?
I would if it could help me be moral (but that's a huge if) and I wouldn't particularly care if it existed. I don't think the Bible God can, so I don't. I don't really give a fig if it exists or not. The problem is that this being (fictional or not) is too powerful. It can snap its fingers and cause any actions I take to become evil. It can make any of its own actions or commands good... without extending that necessarily to my actions if I imitate. God is good by definition, fine, that's the canon. It's just that the moral universe that creates can't be navigated by mortals.

I'm not positive the aliens could help me be moral either, so I'm going to give a tentative no.

The reason? Well, if morality isn't about what works, aliens are increasingly likely to be evil the higher they advance. And I reject that it really is about what works. For example, let's say I look over at the planet next door and find that the Martians have a peaceful, clean, and respectful society that far outstrips our own, only the big reveal is that oh, they're Nazis. Yeah, it turns out that actually works. They have cleansed their society of any factors they considered repugnant, genetically engineered themselves to perfection, and gone on to score huge advancements. Okay, fine, but that doesn't make them moral.

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