God's 'track record'

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nobspeople
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God's 'track record'

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

In another thread, a poster said the following:
Does that good track record, overall include eliminating war, hunger, corruption, injustice and suffering?
It made me wonder, how would god's track record rate?

Let's look at biblically supplied highlights (not in chronical order necessarily):
God created everything :approve:
Then it made man :approve:
Then mad was tempted by satan
This would mean god made satan and allowed satan to tempt man, knowing (if god's all knowing) that man would sin :confused2:
Then god got mad and pouted like a spoiled child (editorializing a bit there but you get the jest) and made man to suffer through sin and ultimately die :confused2:
God asks a guy to sacrifice his son, which he tries but then god sends an angel to stop it :ok:
God gets upset with a city and obliterates it from the planet :blink:
God gets upset with humanity and drowns all terrestrial life (including babies, women in the middle of child birth, animals (which have NOTHING to do with man's sin) and plants) :no:
God THEN offers a sacrifice to sin as himself/son/self/son/self (the debate still lingers as to the specifics of this person)
This person lives a life to his early 30s :approve:
God allows a guy to betray himself/son/self/etc and allows history to see this guy as a traitor when, in all actuality, SOME guy had to do this in order to complete god's 'plan' :facepalm:
Then this god/man/god/man dies and raises from the dead :bigeyes: :approve:
God allows mankind's history to be told in 'the bible', even though there are Es and Os which cause confusion for the remainder of humanity :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Being that humanity is IMPERFECT and god (is said to be) PERFECT, we can't legitimately judge the two with the same measurement.
So let's judge god's 'track record':
:approve: or
:confused2: or
:down:
How would YOU judge god's work?
How should god's work be judged?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: God's 'track record'

Post #31

Post by brunumb »

Veridican wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:17 am It doesn't have to be evidenced. It's either true or not true. There's not going to be any physical evidence. God, if He exists, is a product of MIND, not chemistry or biology. And we would have to prove Him by mental means, not physical means. That said, the physical universe does bear out his existence.
Oh dear. No physical evidence of God, but the universe is physical evidence of God.

But the other bit was OK. God is most certainly a product of mind. That's where all imaginary things reside.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: God's 'track record'

Post #32

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Veridican wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:17 am If you will allow yourself to imagine what God really is, then you won't have a problem.
JoeyKnothead wrote: "If you'll just play make believe."
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if we are going to have a constructive dialogue, you're going to have to be able to at least imagine a God.
My point there is in your saying it's others who'll have a "problem", while it's your problem to convince others of the veracity of your claims.
If you can't do that then you're just a fundamental atheist.
False dichotomy. Not theists agree on what God is or has to allow.

Beyond that, I'm willing to change my position based on confirmable information.
Atheism is simply a religion for you that you never bother to question.
Projection. In this instance atheism is merely a lack of belief in your god claims.
You're no different than a Christian or a Muslim.
And you're no different than a preacher.

Maybe if you quit fretting on others you'd be more convincing.
And you're no scientist either because you won't even entertain the hypothesis that God exists.
I don't entertain the hypothesis that the Easter Bunny exists either.

I'm here to debate the merits of claims. If you find such a condition too upsetting, maybe debate ain't for you.
God, being the monistic entity, is the only thing that really exists.
JoeyKnothead wrote: Insert 1 each, individual, assertion, unevidenced.
It doesn't have to be evidenced.
I'm aware many theists prefer to forego evidence, up to and including within debate.
It's either true or not true.
So the claimant is expected to show their claims're truth, or have the honor to retract claims they can't support
There's not going to be any physical evidence.
That's a problem for the claimant, not me.
God, if He exists, is a product of MIND, not chemistry or biology.
If.

God, if he exists, is not the product of a mind, but of chemistry or biology.

See how we can "if" us up any gods we desire?
And we would have to prove Him by mental means, not physical means.
Just how we prove the Easter Bunny.
That said, the physical universe does bear out his existence.
Agreed.
The only appropriate response to God is to fear Him, worship Him,
JoeyKnothead wrote: I don't worship nothing I fear.
Let me ask you a question: Have you ever been truly depressed in your life?
And truly elated.
JoeyKnothead wrote: Cept the pretty thing, she let's me see her nekkid.
I have no idea what that means, but if you're mentally unbalanced, then there's no point in this conversation.
How does my mental condition show your god claims are truth?
JoeyKnothead wrote: I have the choice to wait and see if you're gonna put truth to your claims, or just go ahead and conclude you're just another preacher.
Oh no, and I don't care if they ban me for this, but I'm not putting the Veridican Argument on this website.
You'll either support your claims, or ya won't.
That will only be on mine. If you want to argue it. That's where I argue it, and I won't promote my site here. If you can't figure out where I am with a Google search, then you'll have to PM me. And that's all I have to say about this.
"I won't argue here where I've made my claims, but if you'll fetch on off to my website, which I'm totally not promoting here, but if ya can't find my website, just google it, but anyway, what I was getting at is I ain't gonna support my claims here where I made 'em, but on my website, which I'm not in any way promoting here on this'n, where I refuse to argue for the veracity of my claims."

Or... "Just come to my website, where I make the rules."

Why is it so dang hard to get some of these theists to debate in a manner that at least resembles honor?
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

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Re: God's 'track record'

Post #33

Post by nobspeople »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:16 am
Veridican wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:17 am If you will allow yourself to imagine what God really is, then you won't have a problem.
JoeyKnothead wrote: "If you'll just play make believe."
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if we are going to have a constructive dialogue, you're going to have to be able to at least imagine a God.
My point there is in your saying it's others who'll have a "problem", while it's your problem to convince others of the veracity of your claims.
If you can't do that then you're just a fundamental atheist.
False dichotomy. Not theists agree on what God is or has to allow.

Beyond that, I'm willing to change my position based on confirmable information.
Atheism is simply a religion for you that you never bother to question.
Projection. In this instance atheism is merely a lack of belief in your god claims.
You're no different than a Christian or a Muslim.
And you're no different than a preacher.

Maybe if you quit fretting on others you'd be more convincing.
And you're no scientist either because you won't even entertain the hypothesis that God exists.
I don't entertain the hypothesis that the Easter Bunny exists either.

I'm here to debate the merits of claims. If you find such a condition too upsetting, maybe debate ain't for you.
God, being the monistic entity, is the only thing that really exists.
JoeyKnothead wrote: Insert 1 each, individual, assertion, unevidenced.
It doesn't have to be evidenced.
I'm aware many theists prefer to forego evidence, up to and including within debate.
It's either true or not true.
So the claimant is expected to show their claims're truth, or have the honor to retract claims they can't support
There's not going to be any physical evidence.
That's a problem for the claimant, not me.
God, if He exists, is a product of MIND, not chemistry or biology.
If.

God, if he exists, is not the product of a mind, but of chemistry or biology.

See how we can "if" us up any gods we desire?
And we would have to prove Him by mental means, not physical means.
Just how we prove the Easter Bunny.
That said, the physical universe does bear out his existence.
Agreed.
The only appropriate response to God is to fear Him, worship Him,
JoeyKnothead wrote: I don't worship nothing I fear.
Let me ask you a question: Have you ever been truly depressed in your life?
And truly elated.
JoeyKnothead wrote: Cept the pretty thing, she let's me see her nekkid.
I have no idea what that means, but if you're mentally unbalanced, then there's no point in this conversation.
How does my mental condition show your god claims are truth?
JoeyKnothead wrote: I have the choice to wait and see if you're gonna put truth to your claims, or just go ahead and conclude you're just another preacher.
Oh no, and I don't care if they ban me for this, but I'm not putting the Veridican Argument on this website.
You'll either support your claims, or ya won't.
That will only be on mine. If you want to argue it. That's where I argue it, and I won't promote my site here. If you can't figure out where I am with a Google search, then you'll have to PM me. And that's all I have to say about this.
"I won't argue here where I've made my claims, but if you'll fetch on off to my website, which I'm totally not promoting here, but if ya can't find my website, just google it, but anyway, what I was getting at is I ain't gonna support my claims here where I made 'em, but on my website, which I'm not in any way promoting here on this'n, where I refuse to argue for the veracity of my claims."

Or... "Just come to my website, where I make the rules."

Why is it so dang hard to get some of these theists to debate in a manner that at least resembles honor?
Because most have nothing honorable to offer outside insulting others and making themselves feel better. After all, christiantiy is all about the SELF
Joey, sometimes I truly don't understand some of your replies. Other times, you knock them out of the park. Kudos to you!
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: God's 'track record'

Post #34

Post by Veridican »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:16 am
Veridican wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:17 am If you will allow yourself to imagine what God really is, then you won't have a problem.
JoeyKnothead wrote: "If you'll just play make believe."
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if we are going to have a constructive dialogue, you're going to have to be able to at least imagine a God.
My point there is in your saying it's others who'll have a "problem", while it's your problem to convince others of the veracity of your claims.
If you can't do that then you're just a fundamental atheist.
False dichotomy. Not theists agree on what God is or has to allow.

Beyond that, I'm willing to change my position based on confirmable information.


And you're no scientist either because you won't even entertain the hypothesis that God exists.
I don't entertain the hypothesis that the Easter Bunny exists either.

I'm here to debate the merits of claims. If you find such a condition too upsetting, maybe debate ain't for you.

It's either true or not true.
So the claimant is expected to show their claims're truth, or have the honor to retract claims they can't support
There's not going to be any physical evidence.
That's a problem for the claimant, not me.
God, if He exists, is a product of MIND, not chemistry or biology.
If.

God, if he exists, is not the product of a mind, but of chemistry or biology.

See how we can "if" us up any gods we desire?
And we would have to prove Him by mental means, not physical means.
Just how we prove the Easter Bunny.



I meant to delete this whole post I made to you, and I did, but now I see it has already been responded to, and therefore, I can't delete it. So, I'll double down and say that I personally find your dishonesty intellectually sickening.

You say theists don't debate with honor, but then you say you will not consider the possibility of God (just like you won't consider the possibility of the Easter bunny). You claim that we provide no evidence, but you won't even allow the debate to get to the point of evidence. You just start in with your mocking, and you act like that's a substitute for intellectual exploration. You think being a cynic is the same thing as knowing the truth, but it's not the same thing. It's just willful ignorance. It's just the avoiding of knowing.

And then you have the nerve to suggest that I have the burden of proof, that I need you to believe in God. I don't. Actually, it's YOU that has the burden of proof. I'm a theist. It makes sense for me to be in a forum talking about God. I'm a Christian and love my fellow man enough to want to show him the door to salvation from death, so it makes sense that I am talking to an atheist. What makes no sense at all is why you're even here. If you say there is no God, then why not just go live your life as hedonistically as you can, as distracted from your final fate as you can be, and with whatever made up illusory purpose you want give it? Why would you ever be here? ...Talking to me?

The burden of explaining is. on. you.
All for Christ and only for Christ! :wave:

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Re: God's 'track record'

Post #35

Post by Veridican »

Fine. Let's have a real debate. Please see my post on the Veridican Argument for the Existence of God.
All for Christ and only for Christ! :wave:

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Re: God's 'track record'

Post #36

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to Veridican in post #34]
If you say there is no God, then why not just go live your life as hedonistically as you can, as distracted from your final fate as you can be, and with whatever made up illusory purpose you want give it?
Why do you think atheists (ie. those who lack a belief that gods exist) live hedonistic lifestyles? What about atheism suggests in any way that hedonism is a part of it? It is simply the lack of belief in god beings, not a rejection of all moral behavior (which doesn't come from holy books).
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Re: God's 'track record'

Post #37

Post by Veridican »

DrNoGods wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:35 am
Why do you think atheists (ie. those who lack a belief that gods exist) live hedonistic lifestyles?
I don't think they do. I think most of them live more morally than I do, or have.
What about atheism suggests in any way that hedonism is a part of it?
Because it's only rational: If there is no God, no Creator, if the one material life is all there is for anyone, then it only makes sense to maximize one's pleasure for the time one has.
It is simply the lack of belief in god beings, not a rejection of all moral behavior (which doesn't come from holy books).
I agree, morality does not come from the Bible. Morality comes from natural law which all rational human beings are aware of, and it really doesn't matter if one is an atheist or theist when it comes to morality. Hedonism does not have to be immoral. It can be, but it doesn't have to be. In fact, I would find it very unpleasurable to rape, murder, and pillage. I would find it very unpleasurable to be cruel to animals. I would find it unpleasurable to be incapable of loving anyone or anything but myself. That's still hedonism, no matter how moral it appears to be.

What makes no sense at all, is this conversation. If you think there is no God, why the heck would you ever be in a religious forum talking to a whacked-out Christian cultist? If I thought there was no God, eventually, I would also have no interest in the subject of God. You don't see me hanging out in Bigfoot forums, do you? I have a great interest in UFOs, but over time, since there isn't much we can do with the evidence we have, I have lost interest, so I don't hang out in UFO forums.

The only thing that makes the equation here work is that you are not really an atheist. :hug:
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Re: God's 'track record'

Post #38

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Veridican wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:07 am I meant to delete this whole post I made to you, and I did, but now I see it has already been responded to, and therefore, I can't delete it. So, I'll double down and say that I personally find your dishonesty intellectually sickening.
I'm gonna hold back from responding until we get a moderator ruling here.

I just want to make sure folks don't think I ain't got me nothing to say about this unwarranted attack on my already questionable character :wave:
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Re: God's 'track record'

Post #39

Post by Tcg »

Veridican wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:50 am Because it's only rational: If there is no God, no Creator, if the one material life is all there is for anyone, then it only makes sense to maximize one's pleasure for the time one has.
Nope. It makes sense to assure that others have the best life possible given that this is all we've got. Once one accepts that this life is all we've got, they also realize how valuable the few short years we have are. None of this points to the idea to "maximize one's pleasure." This idea is nothing but a straw man and not an aspect of the attitude towards the preciousness of life those who realize it is very short and should be cherished.


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Re: God's 'track record'

Post #40

Post by otseng »

Veridican wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:07 am I meant to delete this whole post I made to you, and I did, but now I see it has already been responded to, and therefore, I can't delete it. So, I'll double down and say that I personally find your dishonesty intellectually sickening.

You say theists don't debate with honor, but then you say you will not consider the possibility of God (just like you won't consider the possibility of the Easter bunny). You claim that we provide no evidence, but you won't even allow the debate to get to the point of evidence. You just start in with your mocking, and you act like that's a substitute for intellectual exploration. You think being a cynic is the same thing as knowing the truth, but it's not the same thing. It's just willful ignorance. It's just the avoiding of knowing.

And then you have the nerve to suggest that I have the burden of proof, that I need you to believe in God. I don't. Actually, it's YOU that has the burden of proof. I'm a theist. It makes sense for me to be in a forum talking about God. I'm a Christian and love my fellow man enough to want to show him the door to salvation from death, so it makes sense that I am talking to an atheist. What makes no sense at all is why you're even here. If you say there is no God, then why not just go live your life as hedonistically as you can, as distracted from your final fate as you can be, and with whatever made up illusory purpose you want give it? Why would you ever be here? ...Talking to me?
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