God's 'track record'

[nobspeople]

In another thread, a poster said the following:

Does that good track record, overall include eliminating war, hunger, corruption, injustice and suffering?

It made me wonder, how would god's track record rate?

Let's look at biblically supplied highlights (not in chronical order necessarily):
God created everything
Then it made man
Then mad was tempted by satan
This would mean god made satan and allowed satan to tempt man, knowing (if god's all knowing) that man would sin
Then god got mad and pouted like a spoiled child (editorializing a bit there but you get the jest) and made man to suffer through sin and ultimately die
God asks a guy to sacrifice his son, which he tries but then god sends an angel to stop it
God gets upset with a city and obliterates it from the planet
God gets upset with humanity and drowns all terrestrial life (including babies, women in the middle of child birth, animals (which have NOTHING to do with man's sin) and plants)
God THEN offers a sacrifice to sin as himself/son/self/son/self (the debate still lingers as to the specifics of this person)
This person lives a life to his early 30s
God allows a guy to betray himself/son/self/etc and allows history to see this guy as a traitor when, in all actuality, SOME guy had to do this in order to complete god's 'plan'
Then this god/man/god/man dies and raises from the dead
God allows mankind's history to be told in 'the bible', even though there are Es and Os which cause confusion for the remainder of humanity

Being that humanity is IMPERFECT and god (is said to be) PERFECT, we can't legitimately judge the two with the same measurement.
So let's judge god's 'track record':
or
or

How would YOU judge god's work?
How should god's work be judged?

[brunumb]

This conversation is already ongoing in my dungeon cell down below, "Ranting and Ramblings," or whatever it's called. You can join it there or not. I couldn't care less.

Thank you but I was more interested in debating the topic rather than having a conversation.

Now that I have acquainted myself with Veridicanism, I certainly couldn't care less. Just another one of those recent inventions based on Christianity with some disturbing articles of faith like:
"We believe hell is a place of spiritual agony where souls are kept for the pleasure of God. We believe anyone not transforming into Christ at the time of death will go to hell."

Enjoy your conversation in "Ranting and Ramblings"

[Veridican]

This conversation is already ongoing in my dungeon cell down below, "Ranting and Ramblings," or whatever it's called. You can join it there or not. I couldn't care less.

Thank you but I was more interested in debating the topic rather than having a conversation.

Now that I have acquainted myself with Veridicanism, I certainly couldn't care less. Just another one of those recent inventions based on Christianity with some disturbing articles of faith like:
"We believe hell is a place of spiritual agony where souls are kept for the pleasure of God. We believe anyone not transforming into Christ at the time of death will go to hell."

Enjoy your conversation in "Ranting and Ramblings"

Here's a link to the current articles of faith: Veridican Articles of Faith

You found that off an old website that posted my articles of faith from years ago when there was no church. But it doesn't matter; that's still an accurate description of hell. What'd you think hell was like?

[JoeyKnothead]

...
I find it morally reprehensible to deliberately make something flawed and later blame the user and then hold them to account when things go wrong.

To be fair, pretty thing thinks you're'n evil so and so, cause I ain't about to face me her justice.

[JoeyKnothead]

...
But it doesn't matter; that's still an accurate description of hell. What'd you think hell was like?

Trying to get you to show ya speak truth.

[brunumb]

Here's a link to the current articles of faith: Veridican Articles of Faith

God's 'track record' takes another hit if he allows for nonsense like the following to pass as his word:

"It has been revealed to us by God that mRNA vaccines fulfill the prophecy of John in Revelation 9:13-19. We hold that they are a weapon of the antichrist intended to destroy a significant portion of humanity which will allow the antichrist to come to power. We, therefore, prohibit our members from taking any mRNA vaccine, specifically the COVID-19 mRNA vaccine. We hold that willfully taking such a vaccine is a sin and places one's body and soul in jeopardy."

Here is Revelation 9:13-19

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

For the life of me I can't find any reference to mRNA vaccines.

[Miles]

.


Never mind.


.

[Veridican]

Here's a link to the current articles of faith: Veridican Articles of Faith

God's 'track record' takes another hit if he allows for nonsense like the following to pass as his word:

"It has been revealed to us by God that mRNA vaccines fulfill the prophecy of John in Revelation 9:13-19. We hold that they are a weapon of the antichrist intended to destroy a significant portion of humanity which will allow the antichrist to come to power. We, therefore, prohibit our members from taking any mRNA vaccine, specifically the COVID-19 mRNA vaccine. We hold that willfully taking such a vaccine is a sin and places one's body and soul in jeopardy."

Here is Revelation 9:13-19

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

For the life of me I can't find any reference to mRNA vaccines.

It's symbolic. You wouldn't understand it, and it has nothing do to with you. You're an atheist, right? Then you don't have to worry about any of this. The Bible, and especially Revelation, has nothing to do with you. You know your fate, and you've accepted it. Our church has supported three of its members, who are in health care, with religious exemptions that have been accepted by their employers. I am not going to explain Revelation 9 to you. You can't see it; and apparently that's the way God wants it to be. You are not one of the elect. ...I hope, for your sake, you were never a Christian before you were an atheist.

[brunumb]

I am not going to explain Revelation 9 to you. You can't see it; and apparently that's the way God wants it to be.

Here we go again. The old cliche of "you don't have the special gift, or magic glasses, or direct hot-line to God, or <insert lame excuse here>" so you can't see the message. After 2000 years God decides that it's time for yet another sect to arise with the truthiest of truths because all the others have been just plain wrong. Spare us the hokum and demonstrate the truth of what you preach.

[1213]

…

1 Samuel 15:1-3
1 One day Samuel said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel. Now listen to his message. 2 The Lord All-Powerful says: ‘When the Israelites came out of Egypt, the Amalekites tried to stop them from going to Canaan. I saw what the Amalekites did. 3 Now go fight against the Amalekites. You must completely destroy the Amalekites and everything that belongs to them. Don’t let anything live; you must kill all the men and women and all of their children and little babies. . . .

It does not say they were innocent.

…

2 Kings 2:23-24
23 Elisha went from that city to Bethel. He was walking up the hill to the city, and some boys were coming down out of the city. They began making fun of him. They said, “Go away, you bald-headed man! Go away, you bald-headed man!”
24 Elisha looked back and saw them. He asked the Lord to cause bad things to happen to them. Then two bears came out of the forest and attacked the boys. There were 42 boys ripped apart by the bears.

It does not say God sent them. It is your interpretation.

What does this have to do with god sending bears to slaughter 24 boys simply for making fun of some bald guy? Nothing!

The judgments are based on is person wicked or righteous. If person is wicked, he does evil actions. And the actions show what kind of person one is. Actions are only the result of the mind, not the real problem. Real problem is the evil mind. And if person has evil mind, he will not live eternally. Also in this bear case, if God sent the bears, I think it was not because of the action itself, but because of what the actions told about the people.

Exodus 21:20-21
20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

.

That is not the same as approving hitting.

[FaithWillDo]

God's plan for this creation is perfect and is without mistake or regret. The issue for mankind is that mankind does not and cannot know God, nor does God reveal His plan to us.

I am puzzled how one can claim that "God's plan for this creation is perfect and is without mistake or regret" and at the same time state that God does not reveal his plan for us. If we cannot know God or his plan, then we have no way of knowing that it is perfect. It seems like people are retrofitting these ideas based solely on unwarranted faith and beliefs. It sounds a lot like preaching and I for one do not buy a word of it.

Man's spiritual condition we have from birth is flawed. It was NOT a mistake by God. We were made that way on purpose so that our "flesh" controls us.

I find it morally reprehensible to deliberately make something flawed and later blame the user and then hold them to account when things go wrong.

Dear brunumb,
You stated:
I am puzzled how one can claim that "God's plan for this creation is perfect and is without mistake or regret" and at the same time state that God does not reveal his plan for us. If we cannot know God or his plan, then we have no way of knowing that it is perfect. It seems like people are retrofitting these ideas based solely on unwarranted faith and beliefs.

As I said, God does not reveal His plan to mankind. He purposely keeps it hidden from them. However, He does reveal His truth and plan to His Elect, the First Fruits of His harvest of mankind and only then after they have been converted. To be converted, it takes both the Early and Latter Rain of the Spirit. Only then does a person change from being a part of this world (child of the Devil) to be being a part of the Kingdom of Heaven (child of God). At the time a person is converted, Christ heals their spiritual blindness so that they can understand the spiritual language of scripture. The carnal mind of man cannot understand and never will. Only those who have been given the mind of Christ will understand.

Have you ever wondered why there are so many churches (approx. 2000) in this world, all with their own version of the truth? The churches of this world are made up believers who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit. Their deadly head wound by the Sword of Christ was quickly healed and they remained a part of mankind/child of the Devil. They are spiritually blind and because of their blindness, they cannot understand the truth of God's Word. They are still seeing Christ in the flesh.

Here is where Christ teaches this truth about spiritual blindness:

Mark 8:15-21 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?

In these verses, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on spiritual language - His language. At this point in time (before their conversion at Pentecost), the disciples have not received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain) and were spiritually blind as all mankind is. They simply could not understand what Christ was teaching them. After Christ’s short lesson, He ends it by asking them this question: “How is it that ye do not understand”? No response from the Apostles is recorded in scripture. However, Christ answers His own question in the very next four verses.

Mark 8:22-25 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Since Christ is the Word of God, He teaches us not only through His words which are recorded in scripture but also by the things He did. In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, He goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer in "type" by healing a blind man. This "type" is the same "type" which Christ uses with the Old Testament events to teach His spiritual truths.

In verses 23, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes the carnal aspect of His healing. The “spit” (water) symbolizes the blind man receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (understanding). This is the same time when an unbeliever is "called out from the world" and becomes a Christian. After Christ asks him what he could see, the blind man looks up and says that he could see men walking as trees. "Walking as trees" is a spiritual symbol for Called Out believers of which the blind man is now one. The man’s blindness was not total any longer but he was still very near-sighted. This “first healing” of the blind man reflects our spiritual condition when we first enter the Church. At that time, we are left carnally minded and spiritually near-sighted. Peter says this condition is the same as being blind:

2Pet 4:19 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

In the final verse of the story, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again but this time, Christ has the man “look up”. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit (second coming of Christ) when true spiritual vision is given to the believer. The man’s upward gaze represents this spiritual aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down at the earth. From that moment onward, we know that the blind man is a “type” of a Called and Chosen believer.

You stated:
It seems like people are retrofitting these ideas based solely on unwarranted faith and beliefs. It sounds a lot like preaching and I for one do not buy a word of it.

Faith is a gift from Christ when He comes to an unbeliever and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. Unless this event happens to a person, they are not going to have any faith in Christ. Most of mankind has not and will not receive this gift from Christ in this age. They will most certainly die in their sins, but in the final age, Christ will come to them and give them all the necessary spiritual gifts so that they, too will be converted into a child of God.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

This verse above is speaking about conversion. It will happen to all mankind someday, at a time of Christ's choosing. He does it because it is God's decision that it be done. It is not done because of any decision that a person makes. Mankind cannot convert themselves or even contribute to it. Our conversion is 100% the work of Christ. That is the true Good News that the Apostles proclaimed but it was quickly corrupted when the wolves entered the sheep fold.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

All Early Rain believers who make up the churches have been consumed by the wolves. If this "corruption of the churches" happened at the end of the Apostles ministries, why would any reasonable thinking person believe that the wolves are not still in control of the churches. The wolves are most certainly still in control and they have perverted the truth of Christ so much, there is not a single doctrine taught in the churches that is true. Some doctrines are partially true but that just makes them more deceptive. Here is where Christ taught this truth:

Matt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

All the "Kingdom of Heaven is like" parables are teaching about a portion of the pathway to salvation (conversion). Those parables must be applied spiritually. The spiritual happens "within" mankind, in their hearts and minds. Do you understand this parable? The "woman" represents mankind who have received the Early Rain. The "meal" represents the truth of Christ. The number "three" represents a complete spiritual process and the leaven represents lies (deceptions) from Satan. The woman "hides" the leaven in the meal so that when a new believer consumes (the spiritual process) this bread, they believe they are receiving the truth of Christ but are, in fact, receiving lies from Satan. Since mankind "lives" by every word that comes from the mouth of God, everyone will eat this leavened bread shortly after they receive the Early Rain of the Spirit.

You stated:
I find it morally reprehensible to deliberately make something flawed and later blame the user and then hold them to account when things go wrong.
God never blames mankind for our flawed spiritual condition. However, He does hold mankind accountable for willingly sinning so that we can learn right from wrong. Since God is responsible for our flawed spiritual state, He takes full responsibility in correcting it and that is why He sent Christ:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Christ's work of converting mankind into children of God is just now getting started. In this age, Christ is only converting the First Fruits of His harvest of mankind. They are few in number and are considered "blessed by God" - not because of anything they did to deserve that blessing but solely because it suited God's purposes.

Birthing children of God is a long and painful experience for both the mother (Christ) and the children, much like natural child birth. But in the end, the pain is quickly forgotten and is replaced by the joy of being a child of God.

A part of the reason you find the work of God as being "morally reprehensible" is because you do not understand the character of God or how He is working in this world. He is not the God presented by the churches. He is loving & merciful and His judgments are for mankind's benefit (to teach us righteousness and to save us). Here are a few verses that teach about the judgments of Christ:

Psa 9:8 And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.

Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Isa 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

Joe