Christianity and science

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nobspeople
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Christianity and science

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Christians don't seem to have any problems believing in the science that created the computer they're typing on. Or phone they use. TV they watch. Yet some don't believe science that thwarts their understanding of, or causes issues with, their religion (evolution, abortion issues, homosexuality, etc).

It seems science is OK so long as it doesn't interfere with their beliefs that come from a book written by long, dead men, edited by other men (all of which were imperfect) about a perfect (many say) being.

For discussion:
Is this distrust of science stemming from the distrust of science itself, lack of faith in science and the flawed men that support said science (ironically they have no issues with the imperfect men that wrote and edited the bible but that's something for another topic), lack of faith in their holy book, or something else entirely (please submit YO on what the 'something else' is)?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Christianity and science

Post #91

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:31 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:28 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:23 pm [Replying to mgb in post #87]
It is not about chalking everything to God. It is having a deep, well thought out conviction that God is the source of the world.
That's exactly what chalking it up to god means. :D
It is not as simplistic as believing is God because science can't explain it.
Only if you don't let it be simplistic. That's why FAITH is necessary in christianity. Agreement of faith with knowledge simultaneously on the same issue can't exist.
The science vs. God thing is only something that's thrown up over the course of argument.
And... here we are.

Interesting (I find, and that's sarcasm) that, out of everything I said, this is all you commented on. Funny how that works, ain't it (again, sarcasm)?
Many atheists I have discussed these issues with also have faith, they have faith in science, empiricism and dare I say it - atheism too.

The oft heard (and illogical) argument "just because science hasn't explained it yet doesn't mean..." is an expression of faith in the scientific method as the only means for answering all questions about the universe.
I think everyone has some sort of faith in something as not everything's known. And some faith may not be misplaced, either. But when one knows something, faith about that 'thing' is no longer needed.
I agree, but your statement must be tempered by acknowledging that we actually "know" close to nothing.
When one has eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

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Re: Christianity and science

Post #92

Post by nobspeople »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:33 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:31 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:28 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:23 pm [Replying to mgb in post #87]
It is not about chalking everything to God. It is having a deep, well thought out conviction that God is the source of the world.
That's exactly what chalking it up to god means. :D
It is not as simplistic as believing is God because science can't explain it.
Only if you don't let it be simplistic. That's why FAITH is necessary in christianity. Agreement of faith with knowledge simultaneously on the same issue can't exist.
The science vs. God thing is only something that's thrown up over the course of argument.
And... here we are.

Interesting (I find, and that's sarcasm) that, out of everything I said, this is all you commented on. Funny how that works, ain't it (again, sarcasm)?
Many atheists I have discussed these issues with also have faith, they have faith in science, empiricism and dare I say it - atheism too.

The oft heard (and illogical) argument "just because science hasn't explained it yet doesn't mean..." is an expression of faith in the scientific method as the only means for answering all questions about the universe.
I think everyone has some sort of faith in something as not everything's known. And some faith may not be misplaced, either. But when one knows something, faith about that 'thing' is no longer needed.
I agree, but your statement must be tempered by acknowledging that we actually "know" close to nothing.
I depends on the frame of reference but, overall, the grand scheme of all things, yes that seems to be a proper claim that, while it can't be proven, can surely be highly suggested to the point of acceptance!
We don't know what we don't know until we know it, as they say.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Christianity and science

Post #93

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:36 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:33 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:31 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:28 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:23 pm [Replying to mgb in post #87]
It is not about chalking everything to God. It is having a deep, well thought out conviction that God is the source of the world.
That's exactly what chalking it up to god means. :D
It is not as simplistic as believing is God because science can't explain it.
Only if you don't let it be simplistic. That's why FAITH is necessary in christianity. Agreement of faith with knowledge simultaneously on the same issue can't exist.
The science vs. God thing is only something that's thrown up over the course of argument.
And... here we are.

Interesting (I find, and that's sarcasm) that, out of everything I said, this is all you commented on. Funny how that works, ain't it (again, sarcasm)?
Many atheists I have discussed these issues with also have faith, they have faith in science, empiricism and dare I say it - atheism too.

The oft heard (and illogical) argument "just because science hasn't explained it yet doesn't mean..." is an expression of faith in the scientific method as the only means for answering all questions about the universe.
I think everyone has some sort of faith in something as not everything's known. And some faith may not be misplaced, either. But when one knows something, faith about that 'thing' is no longer needed.
I agree, but your statement must be tempered by acknowledging that we actually "know" close to nothing.
I depends on the frame of reference but, overall, the grand scheme of all things, yes that seems to be a proper claim that, while it can't be proven, can surely be highly suggested to the point of acceptance!
We don't know what we don't know until we know it, as they say.
May I ask, are you an atheist?
When one has eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

nobspeople
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Re: Christianity and science

Post #94

Post by nobspeople »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:39 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:36 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:33 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:31 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:28 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:23 pm [Replying to mgb in post #87]
It is not about chalking everything to God. It is having a deep, well thought out conviction that God is the source of the world.
That's exactly what chalking it up to god means. :D
It is not as simplistic as believing is God because science can't explain it.
Only if you don't let it be simplistic. That's why FAITH is necessary in christianity. Agreement of faith with knowledge simultaneously on the same issue can't exist.
The science vs. God thing is only something that's thrown up over the course of argument.
And... here we are.

Interesting (I find, and that's sarcasm) that, out of everything I said, this is all you commented on. Funny how that works, ain't it (again, sarcasm)?
Many atheists I have discussed these issues with also have faith, they have faith in science, empiricism and dare I say it - atheism too.

The oft heard (and illogical) argument "just because science hasn't explained it yet doesn't mean..." is an expression of faith in the scientific method as the only means for answering all questions about the universe.
I think everyone has some sort of faith in something as not everything's known. And some faith may not be misplaced, either. But when one knows something, faith about that 'thing' is no longer needed.
I agree, but your statement must be tempered by acknowledging that we actually "know" close to nothing.
I depends on the frame of reference but, overall, the grand scheme of all things, yes that seems to be a proper claim that, while it can't be proven, can surely be highly suggested to the point of acceptance!
We don't know what we don't know until we know it, as they say.
May I ask, are you an atheist?
Of course you can.
May you?
;)
No, I'm not. I know a few, however.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Christianity and science

Post #95

Post by mgb »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:31 pm I think everyone has some sort of faith in something as not everything's known. And some faith may not be misplaced, either. But when one knows something, faith about that 'thing' is no longer needed.
Faith is not mindless belief. To be faithful is to be loyal and the faithful often have excellent reasons for their faith.

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Re: Christianity and science

Post #96

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to mgb in post #95]
Faith is not mindless belief.
That's your claim, not mine.
To be faithful is to be loyal and the faithful often have excellent reasons for their faith.
To them, I'm sure their reasons as 'most excellent'. What it boils down to is they have faith because they have to have faith.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Christianity and science

Post #97

Post by mgb »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:46 pm [Replying to mgb in post #95]
Faith is not mindless belief.
That's your claim, not mine.
To be faithful is to be loyal and the faithful often have excellent reasons for their faith.
To them, I'm sure their reasons as 'most excellent'. What it boils down to is they have faith because they have to have faith.
No. Faith only means there are things we don't understand fully. Like in science.

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Re: Christianity and science

Post #98

Post by nobspeople »

mgb wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:01 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:46 pm [Replying to mgb in post #95]
Faith is not mindless belief.
That's your claim, not mine.
To be faithful is to be loyal and the faithful often have excellent reasons for their faith.
To them, I'm sure their reasons as 'most excellent'. What it boils down to is they have faith because they have to have faith.
No. Faith only means there are things we don't understand fully. Like in science.
Not sure what you're saying 'no' to, but OK....?
I'm sorry you don't understand science, as it's a method of discovery and understanding. Really, it's not hard to understand if you put in a tiny bit of effort.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Christianity and science

Post #99

Post by Purple Knight »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:30 am
Purple Knight wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:28 pm
nobspeople wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:32 pm I reverse engineer a lot of things on a daily. No where have I said 'Dang! Look at that! A creator!!'
You would if you started from there being a creator.
Being a creator there would be no need to reverse engineer
I'm talking about reverse engineering from the answer and getting the process, then confirming your answer. People who start with evolution tend to confirm evolution. People who start with creator tend to confirm creator.

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Re: Christianity and science

Post #100

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

Purple Knight wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:06 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:30 am
Purple Knight wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:28 pm
nobspeople wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:32 pm I reverse engineer a lot of things on a daily. No where have I said 'Dang! Look at that! A creator!!'
You would if you started from there being a creator.
Being a creator there would be no need to reverse engineer
I'm talking about reverse engineering from the answer and getting the process, then confirming your answer. People who start with evolution tend to confirm evolution. People who start with creator tend to confirm creator.
Yes, this is why we shouldn't emphasize "confirm" unduly, the real meat here is where we fail to confirm (aka falsification), that's where evolutionists tend to slack off, ignoring elephants in rooms etc.
When one has eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

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