The promise of eternal life.

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Tcg
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The promise of eternal life.

Post #1

Post by Tcg »

,

Most, if not all, religions include a promise of eternal life. Of course, in most cases the promise includes a requirement to follow what that specific religion or branch of said religion requires to attain eternal life.

Can the promise of eternal life be supported with verifiable evidence?

If not, why do so many accept the promise of eternal life?


Tcg
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Re: The promise of eternal life.

Post #11

Post by Tcg »

Veridican wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:18 am
Tcg wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:07 am
I didn't ask about "experiences of others", I asked about verifiable evidence.

Tcg
You keep droning on with that request, but you haven't even defined "life." I think we can agree that death is the absence of life, so we have death defined. But if you can't define life, then no one can even attempt to give you what you're looking for.

18. The followers said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
19. Jesus said, "Have you discovered the beginning, then, so that you are seeking the end? For where the beginning is the end will be. Blessings on one who stands at the beginning: That one will know the end and will not taste death."


Gospel of Thomas, v. 18-19 (Meyer, 1992 ed.)
It's not complicated. Life is when you are alive. Death is when you aren't.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: The promise of eternal life.

Post #12

Post by Veridican »

Tcg wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:23 am
It's not complicated. Life is when you are alive. Death is when you aren't.


Tcg
Yeah, that really isn't going to cut it, is it? Guess you'll never get your proof of life after life. :no:
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Re: The promise of eternal life.

Post #13

Post by 1213 »

Tcg wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:36 am ,

Most, if not all, religions include a promise of eternal life. Of course, in most cases the promise includes a requirement to follow what that specific religion or branch of said religion requires to attain eternal life.
...
In the case of the Bible, I think it is good to notice that the eternal life is promised as a gift for people that are righteous. So, it is not really a reward that could be earned in some way. Following orders doesn't necessary mean person is righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

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Re: The promise of eternal life.

Post #14

Post by theophile »

Tcg wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:36 am ,
Can the promise of eternal life be supported with verifiable evidence?
Nope! But let's be clear: biblically speaking, death isn't conquered until the end. (See 1 Corinthians 15 for example.)

We are not at the end yet, so why would there be verifiable evidence of eternal life? ...
Tcg wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:36 am If not, why do so many accept the promise of eternal life?
It should be a matter of hope and action, not belief / acceptance. Perhaps if we witnessed Jesus' resurrection, we could believe it (as Paul says), but we are way too far from that event to treat it as 'verifiable evidence'.

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Re: The promise of eternal life.

Post #15

Post by nobspeople »

Tcg wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:15 am
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:12 am
Tcg wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:07 am
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:05 am
Tcg wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:02 am
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:59 am
Tcg wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:53 am
nobspeople wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:43 am
As energy can't be created nor destroyed, as we're all energy of some type, it stands to reason that, at least on the energy level, we will 'live forever'. Rather or not this correlates to people being able to 'consciously experience living forever' is unknown.
Well sure something of us will exist after our death. This doesn't mean the promise many religions make about a conscious eternal life are true. Heck, when I cut my toenails, they end up somewhere, but I can't use them to think or feel or anything else.


Tcg
It doesn't mean it's true, you're right. But it doesn't mean it's not true, either. What it does mean, in some fashion, is this concept allows the belief of an afterlife to continue and sometimes grow (at least in modern times).
Maybe 'the afterlife' isn't what many religions think it is, while still existing?
I didn't ask if it was true or not, I asked, "Can the promise of eternal life be supported with verifiable evidence?"


Tcg
And as I said, evidence exists in the experiences of others. Rather or not they can be trusted in another matter.
I didn't ask about "experiences of others", I asked about verifiable evidence.


Tcg
You asked about verifiable evidence. The only evidence I've seen are the experiences of others. If you choose not to accept those as verifiable evidence, that's your call, of course.
What are the experiences of others that you consider to be verifiable evidence?


Tcg
Stories of people, for example, 'dying' and seeing a bright light, only to 'wake up' again and the like. NDEs, SDEs, maybe even OBEs.
an these be verified by science to be real? Some claim yes, but I haven't seen anything directly (though that means only that). But can they be verified the people had them? Yes, in the sense they said they did (if that's all that's required for verification) - at times offering proof such as messages from dead loved ones, what someone said/did/wore that they had no way of knowing, etc.
Are these proof of an afterlife? No. Evidence of the possibility? Sure. Verifiable evidence? Depends on what one says is 'verified', I suppose.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: The promise of eternal life.

Post #16

Post by nobspeople »

Veridican wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:18 am
Tcg wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:07 am
I didn't ask about "experiences of others", I asked about verifiable evidence.

Tcg
You keep droning on with that request, but you haven't even defined "life." I think we can agree that death is the absence of life, so we have death defined. But if you can't define life, then no one can even attempt to give you what you're looking for.

18. The followers said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
19. Jesus said, "Have you discovered the beginning, then, so that you are seeking the end? For where the beginning is the end will be. Blessings on one who stands at the beginning: That one will know the end and will not taste death."


Gospel of Thomas, v. 18-19 (Meyer, 1992 ed.)
If death is the absence of life, why can't life be the absence of death?
So if one can define death, so they can also define life.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: The promise of eternal life.

Post #17

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Tcg wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:36 am ,

Most, if not all, religions include a promise of eternal life. Of course, in most cases the promise includes a requirement to follow what that specific religion or branch of said religion requires to attain eternal life.
For the sake of clarity and truth:

I do not accept the promise of eternal life just because (or even because) a religion promises it.

I accept the promise of eternal life because my Lord (and so also His Father) promises it.
Can the promise of eternal life be supported with verifiable evidence?
Define things that can be included in verifiable evidence please. Something seen? Touched? Measured (physically)? Multiple witnesses/attestations?
If not, why do so many accept the promise of eternal life?
I cannot speak for others, but as I said, I accept the promise of eternal life because my Lord (and so also His Father) promises it. My Lord's word is all the evidence I need for anything, ever. He has never lied to me nor led me wrong. Evidence-wise, I can know that promise from Him is true because a) My Lord has kept His other promises to me (promises that are for the here and now), and b) My Lord lives and speaks... something He could only do if He did indeed rise from the dead - as He said beforehand that He would do - and is yet alive today.



Peace again to you and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: The promise of eternal life.

Post #18

Post by Avoice »

In one word: no.
There is no evidence and you know that.

If there was evidence it would make the headlines. And it hasn't.
For all we know we are in our 10th life. But we have no evidence of it.

Rather than questioning the promise of eternal life and which is a good question but it can not be answered with truth. Ever. Not while alive on earth. How about questioning the threat of damnation? It too can't be answered in this world. But let's examine the threat I say

Christianity, like other false religions, threaten damnation unless you believe in Jesus. I think I'll stop here and start a new post.

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Re: The promise of eternal life.

Post #19

Post by brunumb »

1213 wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:07 am In the case of the Bible, I think it is good to notice that the eternal life is promised as a gift for people that are righteous. So, it is not really a reward that could be earned in some way. Following orders doesn't necessary mean person is righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
If eternal life is promised to the righteous, what becomes of the non-righteous? Which leads me to then ask, what is the difference between death and eternal punishment?
Christianty: 2000 years of making it up as you go along.

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Re: The promise of eternal life.

Post #20

Post by 1213 »

brunumb wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:45 am
1213 wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:07 am In the case of the Bible, I think it is good to notice that the eternal life is promised as a gift for people that are righteous. So, it is not really a reward that could be earned in some way. Following orders doesn't necessary mean person is righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
If eternal life is promised to the righteous, what becomes of the non-righteous? Which leads me to then ask, what is the difference between death and eternal punishment?
Death is for the unrighteous. And because I have understood there will be no coming back from the death, it is eternal death, permanent solution. I believe those people will be utterly destroyed, as said here:

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
Matt. 10:28

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