Babylon the Great

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nobspeople
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Babylon the Great

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Babylon the Great, commonly known as the Whore of Babylon.

For discussion
What is it? What does it mean? Is it a place, person, action? How does it pertain to modern christianity? Or does it?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Tcg
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Re: Babylon the Great

Post #11

Post by Tcg »

1213 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:35 am
I think it can mean Rome and New York.
This is your only mention of New York. You don't provide any support of your supposition. How would the author of Revelation have any concept of New York (not sure if you mean the state or the city) which wouldn't exist until many centuries later?


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Babylon the Great

Post #12

Post by nobspeople »

Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:04 am
1213 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:35 am
I think it can mean Rome and New York.
This is your only mention of New York. You don't provide any support of your supposition. How would the author of Revelation have any concept of New York (not sure if you mean the state or the city) which wouldn't exist until many centuries later?


Tcg
God works in mysterious ways!
Seriously though, if god was involved, surely, this wouldn't be hard to do if it was really NY(C?). After all, a talking and burning bush that wasn't consumed....I mean....yeah...
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Babylon the Great

Post #13

Post by Tcg »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:15 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:04 am
1213 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:35 am
I think it can mean Rome and New York.
This is your only mention of New York. You don't provide any support of your supposition. How would the author of Revelation have any concept of New York (not sure if you mean the state or the city) which wouldn't exist until many centuries later?


Tcg
God works in mysterious ways!
Seriously though, if god was involved, surely, this wouldn't be hard to do if it was really NY(C?). After all, a talking and burning bush that wasn't consumed....I mean....yeah...
In this case it is mysterious because there is no mention of NY or NYC. Let's be real now, the author couldn't have had knowledge of either.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Babylon the Great

Post #14

Post by nobspeople »

Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:22 am
nobspeople wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:15 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:04 am
1213 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:35 am
I think it can mean Rome and New York.
This is your only mention of New York. You don't provide any support of your supposition. How would the author of Revelation have any concept of New York (not sure if you mean the state or the city) which wouldn't exist until many centuries later?


Tcg
God works in mysterious ways!
Seriously though, if god was involved, surely, this wouldn't be hard to do if it was really NY(C?). After all, a talking and burning bush that wasn't consumed....I mean....yeah...
In this case it is mysterious because there is no mention of NY or NYC. Let's be real now, the author couldn't have had knowledge of either.


Tcg
Totally agree. But then again, I don't believe in the modern christian god. But that's not to say others don't. And this god they believe in can do anything (some would say).
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Babylon the Great

Post #15

Post by Tcg »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:27 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:22 am
nobspeople wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:15 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:04 am
1213 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:35 am
I think it can mean Rome and New York.
This is your only mention of New York. You don't provide any support of your supposition. How would the author of Revelation have any concept of New York (not sure if you mean the state or the city) which wouldn't exist until many centuries later?


Tcg
God works in mysterious ways!
Seriously though, if god was involved, surely, this wouldn't be hard to do if it was really NY(C?). After all, a talking and burning bush that wasn't consumed....I mean....yeah...
In this case it is mysterious because there is no mention of NY or NYC. Let's be real now, the author couldn't have had knowledge of either.


Tcg
Totally agree. But then again, I don't believe in the modern christian god. But that's not to say others don't. And this god they believe in can do anything (some would say).
Will sure, but if a god were involved, one would expect a much clearer declaration that NY or NYC were being described.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

nobspeople
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Re: Babylon the Great

Post #16

Post by nobspeople »

Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:33 am
nobspeople wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:27 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:22 am
nobspeople wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:15 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:04 am
1213 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:35 am
I think it can mean Rome and New York.
This is your only mention of New York. You don't provide any support of your supposition. How would the author of Revelation have any concept of New York (not sure if you mean the state or the city) which wouldn't exist until many centuries later?


Tcg
God works in mysterious ways!
Seriously though, if god was involved, surely, this wouldn't be hard to do if it was really NY(C?). After all, a talking and burning bush that wasn't consumed....I mean....yeah...
In this case it is mysterious because there is no mention of NY or NYC. Let's be real now, the author couldn't have had knowledge of either.


Tcg
Totally agree. But then again, I don't believe in the modern christian god. But that's not to say others don't. And this god they believe in can do anything (some would say).
Will sure, but if a god were involved, one would expect a much clearer declaration that NY or NYC were being described.


Tcg
Absolutely. I've often asked such things to believers and have been told 'God only tells you what you need to know'.
Convenient.
But that's christianity: selfish, convenient, easy and unprovable in regards to its claims.
Why so many like it is obvious. Why it's declining in some places, is surprising.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Babylon the Great

Post #17

Post by Tcg »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:38 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:33 am
nobspeople wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:27 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:22 am
nobspeople wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:15 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:04 am
1213 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:35 am
I think it can mean Rome and New York.
This is your only mention of New York. You don't provide any support of your supposition. How would the author of Revelation have any concept of New York (not sure if you mean the state or the city) which wouldn't exist until many centuries later?


Tcg
God works in mysterious ways!
Seriously though, if god was involved, surely, this wouldn't be hard to do if it was really NY(C?). After all, a talking and burning bush that wasn't consumed....I mean....yeah...
In this case it is mysterious because there is no mention of NY or NYC. Let's be real now, the author couldn't have had knowledge of either.


Tcg
Totally agree. But then again, I don't believe in the modern christian god. But that's not to say others don't. And this god they believe in can do anything (some would say).
Will sure, but if a god were involved, one would expect a much clearer declaration that NY or NYC were being described.


Tcg
Absolutely. I've often asked such things to believers and have been told 'God only tells you what you need to know'.
Convenient.
But that's christianity: selfish, convenient, easy and unprovable in regards to its claims.
Why so many like it is obvious. Why it's declining in some places, is surprising.
Perhaps folks are realizing that the claims simply don't add up. Sure, the promise of a rosy future sounds great and perhaps some even relish the idea of the "evil ones" being annihilated, but is there any reason to believe this represents reality.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

nobspeople
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Re: Babylon the Great

Post #18

Post by nobspeople »

Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:45 am
nobspeople wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:38 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:33 am
nobspeople wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:27 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:22 am
nobspeople wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:15 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:04 am
1213 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:35 am
I think it can mean Rome and New York.
This is your only mention of New York. You don't provide any support of your supposition. How would the author of Revelation have any concept of New York (not sure if you mean the state or the city) which wouldn't exist until many centuries later?


Tcg
God works in mysterious ways!
Seriously though, if god was involved, surely, this wouldn't be hard to do if it was really NY(C?). After all, a talking and burning bush that wasn't consumed....I mean....yeah...
In this case it is mysterious because there is no mention of NY or NYC. Let's be real now, the author couldn't have had knowledge of either.


Tcg
Totally agree. But then again, I don't believe in the modern christian god. But that's not to say others don't. And this god they believe in can do anything (some would say).
Will sure, but if a god were involved, one would expect a much clearer declaration that NY or NYC were being described.


Tcg
Absolutely. I've often asked such things to believers and have been told 'God only tells you what you need to know'.
Convenient.
But that's christianity: selfish, convenient, easy and unprovable in regards to its claims.
Why so many like it is obvious. Why it's declining in some places, is surprising.
Perhaps folks are realizing that the claims simply don't add up. Sure, the promise of a rosy future sounds great and perhaps some even relish the idea of the "evil ones" being annihilated, but is there any reason to believe this represents reality.


Tcg
In some places, their realization is probably one good reason.
Maybe religious leaders should make their religion (christianity or whatnot) even easier and friendlier. After all, there's money and influence to be had!
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Babylon the Great

Post #19

Post by 1213 »

Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:04 am This is your only mention of New York.
I think Vatican is more probable, fits better to the description, but, I think the description Bible gives fits in some ways also to New York. For example, the "The merchants who sold these things, who became rich from her." Rev 18:15 is fitting.

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Re: Babylon the Great

Post #20

Post by Tcg »

1213 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:14 pm
Tcg wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:04 am This is your only mention of New York.
I think Vatican is more probable, fits better to the description, but, I think the description Bible gives fits in some ways also to New York. For example, the "The merchants who sold these things, who became rich from her." Rev 18:15 is fitting.
This doesn't explain how someone who wrote centuries before the establishment of NY or was it NYC? you didn't specify, would have any knowledge of NY or NYC.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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