Can god lie?

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nobspeople
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Can god lie?

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Simple question, that many say has a simple answer: NO, as god is holy and pure.

But, as god is the creator of everything (before everything) god had to create the concept of sin and allow it to happen into his creation (even though he seemed surprised and upset about it, but that's another topic altogether).
Sin is defined as an offense against religious or moral law.
Who created this law? God.
To whom does god answer? No one.

It's said sin can't exist in 'the light' of god.
Says who? God.

So, in theory, god could indeed lie: he answers to no one, is all creating (including all laws both morally and naturally) and no human would be able to know if god did lie.

Or is this a concept that's not correct? And why?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Can god lie?

Post #21

Post by Athetotheist »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:06 am For an omnipotent God the word "cannot" by definition cannot mean "lacks the power or ability to do something", the only meaning it can have is "does not allow himself to do something. In this sense the bible says that God cqnnot lie.
A deity having the "ability" to lie means that deity has the potential to lie, and a deity with the potential to do any evil would not be perfectly good. A perfectly good entity cannot have the potential for evil in its nature and simply choose to do good.

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Re: Can god lie?

Post #22

Post by Athetotheist »

mgb wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:47 am
Athetotheist wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:38 amThen why doesn't the text read, "Now you can see that you do respect and obey God"?
God was using these events to teach Abraham what God truly wanted; real respect not sacrifice.
Then why not just establish Hosea 6:6 right then and there?

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Re: Can god lie?

Post #23

Post by mgb »

Athetotheist wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:22 am
mgb wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:47 am
Athetotheist wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:38 amThen why doesn't the text read, "Now you can see that you do respect and obey God"?
God was using these events to teach Abraham what God truly wanted; real respect not sacrifice.
Then why not just establish Hosea 6:6 right then and there?
Maybe Hosea was nowhere in sight. Besides, no harm in doubling up on a message.

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Re: Can god lie?

Post #24

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Athetotheist wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:00 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:06 am For an omnipotent God the word "cannot" by definition cannot mean "lacks the power or ability to do something", the only meaning it can have is "does not allow himself to do something. In this sense the bible says that God cqnnot lie.
A deity having the "ability" to lie means that deity has the potential to lie, and a deity with the potential to do any evil would not be perfectly good. A perfectly good entity cannot have the potential for evil in its nature and simply choose to do good.
Potential is not bad, it just means the choice is available; choice is a component of free will.



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Re: Can god lie?

Post #25

Post by Athetotheist »

mgb wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:25 am
Athetotheist wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:22 am
mgb wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:47 am
Athetotheist wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:38 amThen why doesn't the text read, "Now you can see that you do respect and obey God"?
God was using these events to teach Abraham what God truly wanted; real respect not sacrifice.
Then why not just establish Hosea 6:6 right then and there?
Maybe Hosea was nowhere in sight. Besides, no harm in doubling up on a message.
Does a little kid have to be scared half to death in the process?

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Re: Can god lie?

Post #26

Post by brunumb »

mgb wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:22 am
Athetotheist wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:49 pm
    [Replying to Miles in post #2
    Now I can see that you do respect and obey God. I see that you are ready to kill your son, your only son, for me.

    According to the text, it's supposed to be a test. The problem there is that for a deity who knows everything there is to know about us, such a test shouldn't be necessary.
    The test is not for God's enlightenment, it is for Abraham's.
    Or maybe the author of this little story about Abraham and Isaac had a message for the people instead.

    "Listen up people. God told Abraham to kill his son. Even though it would have been the hardest thing on earth for him to do, Abraham obeyed and was prepared to do whatever God asked of him. As we priests are God's spokesmen here on earth, you should also do whatever we ask you to do in his name, no matter how hard you might find it. Now, we are getting hungry and God says you should bring us lunch."

    Like with so much in the Bible, it's all about unquestioning obedience.
    Christianty: 2000 years of making it up as you go along.

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    Miles
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    Re: Can god lie?

    Post #27

    Post by Miles »

    JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:06 am For an omnipotent God the word "cannot" by definition cannot mean "lacks the power or ability to do something", the only meaning it can have is "does not allow himself to do something. In this sense the bible says that God cannot lie.
    Which would include making mistakes: God cannot make a mistake. YET, as I've point out before, he admits to doing just that.




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    Re: Can god lie?

    Post #28

    Post by JehovahsWitness »

    Miles wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:47 pm
    JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:06 am For an omnipotent God the word "cannot" by definition cannot mean "lacks the power or ability to do something", the only meaning it can have is "does not allow himself to do something. In this sense the bible says that God cannot lie.
    Which would include making mistakes: God cannot make a mistake. YET, as I've point out before, he admits to doing just that.


    If you are referring to his test of Abraham, I think we both know that does not qualify as a mistake. God gave Abraham an instruction, Abraham showed his willingness to obey the instruction, and for whatever reason God stopped him from completing the instruction.

    Presumptions do not an error make.



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    "For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
    Romans 14:8

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    Re: Can god lie?

    Post #29

    Post by 1213 »

    mgb wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:30 pm ...God can temp us towards folly so we will learn wisdom...
    I disagree with that, for example because:

    Let no man say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God,” for God can’t be tempted by evil, and he himself tempts no one. But each one is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.
    James 1:13-14

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    Re: Can god lie?

    Post #30

    Post by mgb »

    1213 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:32 am
    mgb wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:30 pm ...God can temp us towards folly so we will learn wisdom...
    I disagree with that, for example because:

    Let no man say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God,” for God can’t be tempted by evil, and he himself tempts no one. But each one is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.
    James 1:13-14
    I think that has to be qualified; tempt in an innocent way, to teach, or truly tempt towards wickedness. There is a big difference.

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