Can god lie?

Argue for and against Christianity

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nobspeople
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Can god lie?

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Simple question, that many say has a simple answer: NO, as god is holy and pure.

But, as god is the creator of everything (before everything) god had to create the concept of sin and allow it to happen into his creation (even though he seemed surprised and upset about it, but that's another topic altogether).
Sin is defined as an offense against religious or moral law.
Who created this law? God.
To whom does god answer? No one.

It's said sin can't exist in 'the light' of god.
Says who? God.

So, in theory, god could indeed lie: he answers to no one, is all creating (including all laws both morally and naturally) and no human would be able to know if god did lie.

Or is this a concept that's not correct? And why?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Can god lie?

Post #11

Post by 1213 »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:14 pm Simple question, that many say has a simple answer: NO, as god is holy and pure.
...
I believe God can lie. I don’t believe He wants to lie. And I think He has never lied.

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Re: Can god lie?

Post #12

Post by mgb »

Karen Armstrong argued that God lied to Abraham to dramatically illustrate the fact that God did not want human sacrifice. He brought him to the edge and then told him to stop.

There is a difference between a technical lie and a moral lie.

Technical lie: I am president of the U.S.A.
Moral lie: It is good to rob banks.

It is very easy to see how God could use what are technically lies (tricks) to teach people in a dramatic way. To lead people to the edge so they can look over and see the danger. God can temp us towards folly so we will learn wisdom. That's a good teaching method. A technical lie can lead to moral truth.

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Miles
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Re: Can god lie?

Post #13

Post by Miles »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:13 am
Miles wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:53 pm
nobspeople wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:14 pm Can god lie?
He can and has.

Genesis 22
1 After these things God decided to test Abraham’s faith. God said to him, “Abraham!”

And he said, “Yes!”

2 Then God said, “Take your son to the land of Moriah and kill your son there as a sacrifice for me. This must be Isaac, your only son, the one you love. Use him as a burnt offering on one of the mountains there. I will tell you which mountain.”
.
.
.

10 Then Abraham reached for his knife to kill his son.

11 But the angel of the Lord stopped him. The angel called from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!”

Abraham answered, “Yes?”

12 The angel said, “Don’t kill your son or hurt him in any way. Now I can see that you do respect and obey God. I see that you are ready to kill your son, your only son, for me.”


The presumption here being that god sent his angel to stop Abraham, in effect making a lie out of what god had told him in verse 2; that he wanted Abraham to kill his son, and without qualification.


.
Thanks for the reply.
In this thread, we're assuming god is 'real' as many believers suggest.
In that vein, how can humanity know if god is or isn't lying? Or can't they know?
In as much as I've shown that god can, and has lied, humanity can't know if god is or isn't lying about anything he's said.



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Re: Can god lie?

Post #14

Post by Athetotheist »

    [Replying to Miles in post #2
    Now I can see that you do respect and obey God. I see that you are ready to kill your son, your only son, for me.

    According to the text, it's supposed to be a test. The problem there is that for a deity who knows everything there is to know about us, such a test shouldn't be necessary.

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    Miles
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    Re: Can god lie?

    Post #15

    Post by Miles »

    Athetotheist wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:49 pm
      [Replying to Miles in post #2
      Now I can see that you do respect and obey God. I see that you are ready to kill your son, your only son, for me.

      According to the text, it's supposed to be a test. The problem there is that for a deity who knows everything there is to know about us, such a test shouldn't be necessary.
      Right!

      If one holds that god knows everything, then much of his interactions in the Bible shouldn't be necessary. In light of his omniscience why did he create man in the first place knowing man would sin? But then again, maybe he's not so all-knowing after all.

      Genesis 6:6
      The Lord was sorry he had made human beings on the earth. His heart was filled with pain.

      According to the Bible god doesn't make many mistakes, but he does make them.



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      Re: Can god lie?

      Post #16

      Post by mgb »

      Athetotheist wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:49 pm
        [Replying to Miles in post #2
        Now I can see that you do respect and obey God. I see that you are ready to kill your son, your only son, for me.

        According to the text, it's supposed to be a test. The problem there is that for a deity who knows everything there is to know about us, such a test shouldn't be necessary.
        The test is not for God's enlightenment, it is for Abraham's.

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        Re: Can god lie?

        Post #17

        Post by JehovahsWitness »

        For an omnipotent God the word "cannot" by definition cannot mean "lacks the power or ability to do something", the only meaning it can have is "does not allow himself to do something. In this sense the bible says that God cannot lie.




        JW




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        Re: Can god lie?

        Post #18

        Post by Athetotheist »

        mgb wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:22 am
        Athetotheist wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:49 pm
          [Replying to Miles in post #2
          Now I can see that you do respect and obey God. I see that you are ready to kill your son, your only son, for me.

          According to the text, it's supposed to be a test. The problem there is that for a deity who knows everything there is to know about us, such a test shouldn't be necessary.
          The test is not for God's enlightenment, it is for Abraham's.
          Then why doesn't the text read, "Now you can see that you do respect and obey God"?

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          Re: Can god lie?

          Post #19

          Post by mgb »

          Athetotheist wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:38 amThen why doesn't the text read, "Now you can see that you do respect and obey God"?
          God was using these events to teach Abraham what God truly wanted; real respect not sacrifice.

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          JoeyKnothead
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          Re: Can god lie?

          Post #20

          Post by JoeyKnothead »

          Athetotheist wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:49 pm ...
          The problem there is that for a deity who knows everything there is to know about us, such a test shouldn't be necessary.
          I can't help but to tell it everytime this comes up...

          Down the road aways, there's the Dewberry Baptist Church, and ya got the Dewberry Baptist Church #2.

          How come two of em, ya ask?

          As it was, the church was having it a picnic that one time, and they set to fussing on if God knows everything that's gonna happen. There's the one bunch that said he does, and the other bunch that said na-ah. So they was back and forthing 'til finally...

          One guy threw him a piece of fried chicken at one of the others, and said such as, "Did he know I was agonna do me that?" So they did right then and there cleave that congregation to the twain.

          It cracks me up every time I think about it. This is the Greatest State of Georgia, this is the song of my people.
          Discovery is finding things that exist.
          Invention is using things discovered.

          Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

          - William

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