WHY SHOULD WE TRUST GOD?

[aapatil@cox.net]

WHY SHOULD WE TRUST GOD?
We trust God for the following reasons:1) He is meek and humble, and made the ultimate, and most painful and humiliating sacrifice on the cross to bring us eternal life, although we betrayed him through our sins. 2) He healed the broken hearted, forgave sinners and those who were killing Him without condemning them. 3) He fed the hungry and healed the sick. 4) In the beauty and harmony of His creation we see an infinitely intelligent and loving God. 5) He made us like Him by giving us the ability to unconditionally love others and be creative.
Sometimes, we doubt Him when we see pain, suffering and injustice. However, God had to allow pain and suffering, which is the result of sin in the world, because He gave us a free will so that we can choose love and have peace and joy for all eternity. The suffering of this world will be nothing compared to heaven for all eternity. Furthermore, He took the suffering of all of us on the cross so that we will repent for our sins and have eternal life. Sometimes our prayers appear to go unanswered. God however always does what is best for us in the long run, although it is not apparent to us immediately.

[Miles]

The whole sacrifice on the cross and being dead for a few ours was totally unnecessary for a god that can do anything.

Being able to do anything does not negate self imposed moral limitations; if a man can rape a woman and is able to escape the law, does that mean he should. God can indeed do anything, that doesnt mean he should.

Glad to see you agree that there are moral limits that can be applied to god. Limits such as: {snip} ...

Did I say self imposed or "miles" imposed?

Unless you are claiming to be God, your list of what he should or should not do, does not constitute more than your opinion. I presume if the God of the bible does exist, he has taken note of your input and dares to disagree.

Sorry, but I wasn't addressing your comment about "self imposed moral limitations;" but rather your statement that "God can indeed do anything, that doesnt mean he should."


.

[JehovahsWitness]

Sorry, but I wasn't addressing your comment about "self imposed moral limitations;" but rather your statement that "God can indeed do anything, that doesnt mean he should."

I understand, you were inferring that the things God is reported to have done, in your opinion, he should not have done.. Evidently, if scripture is to be believed, since he did them, he does not share that opinion.



JW

[Purple Knight]

And if God doesn't share our morals (in which these things would actually be bad) there's not much of a foundation there for any trust.

Are we not allegedly made in God's image and do we not get our moral directions from God? If God fails to meet our standards with his "Do as I say, not as I do" sort of morality, then trust just flies out the window.

It does. If I tell you I'm not bound by your rules, I may be telling the truth (and I agree with JW on that point; if God really exists there's no reason Miles > God on morality) but there's still the pesky issue of the void this creates that's a huge obstacle to trust.

My cats trust me because I've never done anything to hurt them. Maybe I wouldn't, even if it wasn't the law. But they don't know that and that's the point. If I interact with them every day and am usually kind and very rarely cruel (giving medicine is to help them, but they don't know that), that may be a second way to earn trust even without the need of moral restriction, but if I've never interacted with them at all, of course they don't trust me. Trust must be built up. In kittens it's called socialising them. If I sell one that is poorly socialised I might end up with an unhappy customer.

1) Not bound by my moral rules
2) I don't even know the guy

...So no, there's really no good foundation for trust here.

[Miles]

Sorry, but I wasn't addressing your comment about "self imposed moral limitations;" but rather your statement that "God can indeed do anything, that doesnt mean he should."

I understand, you were inferring that the things God is reported to have done, in your opinion, he should not have done.. Evidently, if scripture is to be believed, since he did them, he does not share that opinion.

Right. And believe it or not but I feel my sense of morality, and perhaps yours as well is, at times, better than his, or at least better than those who wrote the Bible.---I assume you don't feel that passing down punishment as outlined in Deuteronomy 5:9 is morally right.

Deuteronomy 5:9
"9 Don’t worship or serve idols of any kind, because I am the Lord your God. I hate for my people to worship other gods. People who sin against me become my enemies. And I will punish them, and their children, their grandchildren, and even their great-grandchildren.

.

[Veridican]

WHY SHOULD WE TRUST GOD?
We trust God for the following reasons:1) He is meek and humble, and made the ultimate, and most painful and humiliating sacrifice on the cross to bring us eternal life, although we betrayed him through our sins. 2) He healed the broken hearted, forgave sinners and those who were killing Him without condemning them. 3) He fed the hungry and healed the sick. 4) In the beauty and harmony of His creation we see an infinitely intelligent and loving God. 5) He made us like Him by giving us the ability to unconditionally love others and be creative.
Sometimes, we doubt Him when we see pain, suffering and injustice. However, God had to allow pain and suffering, which is the result of sin in the world, because He gave us a free will so that we can choose love and have peace and joy for all eternity. The suffering of this world will be nothing compared to heaven for all eternity. Furthermore, He took the suffering of all of us on the cross so that we will repent for our sins and have eternal life. Sometimes our prayers appear to go unanswered. God however always does what is best for us in the long run, although it is not apparent to us immediately.

Very eloquent. Thank you for posting it. I would say that there is a kind of surrender we give to God. We submit to Him. We say to ourselves: I am the creature, the creation; He is the Creator. There are things I want, and there are things I do not want. I have no control over what comes my way, so I will surrender to the will of the One who made me. I trust that when I die, I will suffer no more. I trust that while I live I will benefit from His mercy and grace. I have no choice anyway, and when I get passed my indignation and false reason, I will find in Him my purpose and the fruition of my existence. I will praise Him for His Son whom He sent to give me eternal life with Him, if I will submit to His will over mine. I love Him, and I don't know why. He loves me, and I don't know why. I choose to throw myself into that mystery, and to trust Him.

That's it.

[Veridican]

Sin or no sin, God can do anything which includes not allowing pain and suffering. A truly intelligent and loving being could easily solve that problem.

Oh really? Solve it. Describe a universe where you prepare souls for eternal life and do not allow them to experience suffering and loss and yet appreciate eternal happiness. Go on, saith the Lord, tell me how you would do it?

[brunumb]

Sin or no sin, God can do anything which includes not allowing pain and suffering. A truly intelligent and loving being could easily solve that problem.

Oh really? Solve it. Describe a universe where you prepare souls for eternal life and do not allow them to experience suffering and loss and yet appreciate eternal happiness. Go on, saith the Lord, tell me how you would do it?

There are no souls. There is no eternal life. It's all a scam. Besides, you could only laugh at a deity that creates and fine tunes an entire universe and then gets thwarted by a few minions he allegedly also created on a tiny planet in the middle of nowhere. People are still buying this stuff? Hmmm. Maybe not buying as such, but paying through the nose to keep self-proclaimed ministers of God in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.

[Veridican]

There are no souls. There is no eternal life. It's all a scam. Besides, you could only laugh at a deity that creates and fine tunes an entire universe and then gets thwarted by a few minions he allegedly also created on a tiny planet in the middle of nowhere. People are still buying this stuff? Hmmm. Maybe not buying as such, but paying through the nose to keep self-proclaimed ministers of God in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.

So, you want to save people from losing their money in a universe with no God where they will cease to exist upon their death as if they had never been alive to begin with. Is that your game? Really, if it is, why bother?

[JehovahsWitness]

Right. And believe it or not but I feel my sense of morality, and perhaps yours as well is, at times, better than his, or at least better than those who wrote the Bible ...

Opinion noted. I disagree.

.---I assume you don't feel that passing down punishment as outlined in Deuteronomy 5:9 is morally right.

Deuteronomy 5:9
"9 Don’t worship or serve idols of any kind, because I am the Lord your God. I hate for my people to worship other gods. People who sin against me become my enemies. And I will punish them, and their children, their grandchildren, and even their great-grandchildren.

.

It seems you also assume you understand Deuteronomy 5:9 correctly. I happen to interpret the above differently to you.








JW

[brunumb]

There are no souls. There is no eternal life. It's all a scam. Besides, you could only laugh at a deity that creates and fine tunes an entire universe and then gets thwarted by a few minions he allegedly also created on a tiny planet in the middle of nowhere. People are still buying this stuff? Hmmm. Maybe not buying as such, but paying through the nose to keep self-proclaimed ministers of God in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.

So, you want to save people from losing their money in a universe with no God where they will cease to exist upon their death as if they had never been alive to begin with. Is that your game? Really, if it is, why bother?

We are alive now and for all we know it's all we will get. Living this life based on what will allegedly happen after we die is....... well....... stupid. Promises from religious gurus are a dime a dozen. None of them can demonstrate that they speak the truth. They simply prey on the desperate and the gullible, or those who have been thoroughly indoctrinated from birth to believe in gods and demons and the notion of never having to really die. But, everything dies. That's the nature of the universe. Even it will die eventually.