I'm going to leave the rest of it as it's going nowhere and I think we've both made our points. Readers will decide whether either of us are making any sense.
However, I would like to focus on this one:
We_Are_VENOM wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:09 pm
benchwarmer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:43 pm
Yeah and even if we had Jesus' body (which would disprove Christianity, but that isn't the point here), skeptics would still move the goalposts by asking
"How do you know that is actually Jesus' body, that could be anyone's body".
So with that said, I will do the same thing here with King Tut...how do we know that is King Tuts actual body?
First, we can't know with 100% certainty that the mummified remains that we label as "King Tut" is the actual body of the Egyptian King that ruled in the period of approximately 1334 BC to 1324 BC (plus or minus a few years either way depending on source).
However, there is a LOT of evidence (you know, corroborating facts) that make it very likely.
1) It takes some amount of effort and expenditure of wealth to mummify a body and bury it in a special tomb. The actual body could be some random body (though see next point) and not the actual King's body. It makes no sense to go to all that trouble for a random Egyptian instead of one of it's rulers, but it's possible.
2) DNA testing has been done on the body we are labelling King Tut.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... cle/185393
Results and conclusions from this paper (bolding mine):
Results Genetic fingerprinting allowed the construction of a 5-generation pedigree of Tutankhamun's immediate lineage. The KV55 mummy and KV35YL were identified as the parents of Tutankhamun. No signs of gynecomastia and craniosynostoses (eg, Antley-Bixler syndrome) or Marfan syndrome were found, but an accumulation of malformations in Tutankhamun's family was evident. Several pathologies including Köhler disease II were diagnosed in Tutankhamun; none alone would have caused death. Genetic testing for STEVOR, AMA1, or MSP1 genes specific for Plasmodium falciparum revealed indications of malaria tropica in 4 mummies, including Tutankhamun’s. These results suggest avascular bone necrosis in conjunction with the malarial infection as the most likely cause of death in Tutankhamun. Walking impairment and malarial disease sustained by Tutankhamun is supported by the discovery of canes and an afterlife pharmacy in his tomb.
Conclusion Using a multidisciplinary scientific approach, we showed the feasibility of gathering data on Pharaonic kinship and diseases and speculated about individual causes of death.
The 18th dynasty (circa 1550-1295 BC) of the New Kingdom (circa 1550-1070 BC) was one of the most powerful royal houses of ancient Egypt. The pharaoh Akhenaten, who ruled from circa 1351 to 1334 BC, is considered one of the most controversial of the Egyptian pharaohs, because his attempt to radically transform traditional religion affected all facets of society and caused great turmoil.
Akhenaten's eventual successor, Tutankhamun, is probably the most famous of all pharaohs, although his tenure was brief. He died in the ninth year of his reign, circa 1324 BC, at age 19 years. Little was known of Tutankhamun and his ancestry prior to Howard Carter's discovery of his intact tomb (KV62) in the Valley of the Kings in 1922, but his mummy and the priceless treasures buried with him, along with other important archeological discoveries of the 20th century, have provided significant information about the boy pharaoh's life and family.
Because Tutankhamun died so young and left no heirs, numerous speculations on familial disease have been made. The presence of disease is further supported by numerous reliefs, statuettes, and other sculptures of Akhenaten and his family dating from the Amarna period (circa 1353-1323 BC). These artifacts show the royalty of that era as having a somewhat androgynous appearance or a bizarre form of gynecomastia. Specific diseases that have been suggested to explain this appearance include Marfan syndrome, Wilson-Turner X-linked mental retardation syndrome, Fröhlich syndrome (adiposogenital dystrophy), Klinefelter syndrome, androgen insensitivity syndrome, aromatase excess syndrome in conjunction with sagittal craniosynostosis syndrome, or Antley-Bixler syndrome or a variant form of that syndrome.1-4 However, most of the disease diagnoses are hypotheses derived by observing and interpreting artifacts and not by evaluating the mummified remains of royal individuals apart from these artifacts.
To shed light on the putative diseases and causes of death in Tutankhamun's immediate lineage, we first used molecular genetic methods to determine kinship within that lineage. Whereas some individual relationships were known from historical records, the identity of most of the mummies under investigation was still uncertain. We also searched specifically for pathologies, inherited diseases, and causes of death. For example, many scholars have hypothesized that Tutankhamun's death was attributable to an accident, such as a fall from his chariot or a kick by a horse or other animal; septicemia or fat embolism secondary to a femur fracture; murder by a blow to the back of the head; or poisoning.5-10 We had access to mummies that had never before been studied with the methods we used.
So, we can be pretty confident that this is indeed the Egyptian ruler known as King Tut. As always, those who follow the evidence are open to new data that would update our knowledge and change the findings if necessary.
If we had anything even close to this much corroborating evidence for Jesus, this website would probably not exist. Ignoring the fact that if we had his body, that would invalidate some of the Biblical claims, but that's nothing new for apologists. They would just reinterpret things and claim it really means only his spiritual body ascended.
Anyway, if you feel that playing this 'game' is helping your apologetic arguments, then have fun. Obviously it's convincing to you, but I'm skeptical it's convincing anyone else who isn't already convinced (and even some of them are probably cringing and staying out of it).
As you like to do, you are welcome to the last word here unless you have another more refined tangent that would bring some clarity.
(unfortunately there's no Grimm Reaper smilie available) Russia is being used by god to fulfill prophecy (who god can't do its own dirty work is another raging question, but it's not the first time we hear this from biblical 'know-it-alls' like patty).
