Folks, sin, and the holy thing there

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 44, here:

Yea, I get it. You wanted your sin of choice whatever that might be. It will not make sense it will be a drive and desire to know Christ when the Holy Spirit convicts a person of their sin. The Holy Spirit has not convicted you of the sin in your life and He may never convict you of the sin in your life. But until that happens you cannot and you will not become a Chrisitan.

For debate:

What the heck is that all about, and can any of y'all put any truth to it.

Mostly the putting truth to it.

[JoeyKnothead]

Richard Taylor says it this way "to say that something is wrong because it is forbidden by God is perfectly understandable to anyone who believes in a law-giving God. But to say that something is wrong even though no God exists to forbid it is not understandable" Richard Taylor, Ethics, Faith and Reason pp 90

Then we must all thank God nobody ever committed murder in His name.

Yes, atheism leads to Nihlism.

And religion leads to planes flying into buildings.

[Clownboat]

Because you are borrowing morality from religion and more than likely Christian religion.

Societies determine morality, not religions or more specificaly any gods.

For example:

Do you believe that a law that allows anyone to kill live babies is wrong?
Do you believe that a law that allows anyone to kill millions of people is wrong?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions you are borrowing morality from religion.

Non sequitar.

Regardless, the society you live in will determin if such laws are needed. Again, no god is involved and laws don't come from the gods.

If you do not believe in law giving God you have no reason to believe that those laws would be wrong?

Don't be so heavenly that you are no longer any earthy use. What I mean is, because we all live in a society of people and these people have value (IMO and I have empathy for others), we should therefore follow laws that are in place for the betterment of the society that we live in, in a hope that all will be better off for it.

Don't be so heavely as to forget to be humane. If there was a god afterall, I doubt it would approve.

As a side note, I'm not a fan of abortions. However, I find trying to champion this cause (not saying you are): 'we need to save unwanted babies' to be an odd one. Leaves me to wonder what the corrrect number of unwanted babies we should be looking to 'save' is and how such a thing would affect society trying to provide for such unwant (sounds cold, but they are unwanted by definition).

I know many couples that struggled or struggle with trying to have a baby. Those are the ones we should be looking to 'save' IMO, but that doesn't look quite as impressive on a picket sign.

[William]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #71]

Then we must all thank God nobody ever committed murder in His name.

JoeyKnothead: [praying] "Thank You God that nobody ever committed murder in your name"

God: [replying]

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #71]

Then we must all thank God nobody ever committed murder in His name.

JoeyKnothead: [praying] "Thank You God that nobody ever committed murder in your name"

God: [replying]

It's the ignorant arrogance of the holier'n thou I find so insulting.

From declaring atheists can't have morals, on down the line.

As they're incapable of showing their god exists to even have an opinion they can't show he does.

Then legislating.

[William]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #74]

I don't see any point in getting hot and bothered over such stuff Joey. Enjoy what days you have because you cannot hope to change the world in your lifetime, and none of us really know what effect any legislation will have on the future...that is just the nature of democracy ya can't always get what ya want...like the trickle-down effect which was promised - it was a nice carrot but no one gets to actually bite it...

[brunumb]

I do feel sorry for those that are unable to find purpose and meaning in life without a god concept being involved.

It seems to me that said god concept is only of any value if it offers an extension of this life after death. Everything in this life then becomes meaningless other than as a struggle to make it into the next one, or the safe house.

[brunumb]

Life is meaningless without moral principles. And religion but I did not think you would like the religion part of it.

Wrong on both counts. We do have moral principles, just not necessarily those allegedly prescribed by some god. And without religion many of us still find life meaningful.

[brunumb]

Because you are borrowing morality from religion and more than likely Christian religion.

You've actually got that backwards. Religions co-opted whatever they could to make themselves appeal to the populace. Recognising that killing each other was the wrong thing to do was around long before any shaman decided to declare himself an intermediary of the gods and make such obvious proclamations to convince the tribe of his elevated status. Clergy act the same way today.

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #74]

I don't see any point in getting hot and bothered over such stuff Joey. Enjoy what days you have because you cannot hope to change the world in your lifetime, and none of us really know what effect any legislation will have on the future...that is just the nature of democracy ya can't always get what ya want...like the trickle-down effect which was promised - it was a nice carrot but no one gets to actually bite it...

I hear ya.

I've learned to pity such folks more'n to be mad at em.

[brunumb]

As a side note, I'm not a fan of abortions. However, I find trying to champion this cause (not saying you are): 'we need to save unwanted babies' to be an odd one.

That care for babies seems to only last as long as they are in the womb. Once out, it's mostly a case of "we've done our bit, you're on your own now".