Folks, sin, and the holy thing there

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
JoeyKnothead
Banned
Banned
Posts: 20879
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Here
Has thanked: 4093 times
Been thanked: 2572 times

Folks, sin, and the holy thing there

Post #1

Post by JoeyKnothead »

From Post 44, here:
EarthScienceguy wrote: Yea, I get it. You wanted your sin of choice whatever that might be. It will not make sense it will be a drive and desire to know Christ when the Holy Spirit convicts a person of their sin. The Holy Spirit has not convicted you of the sin in your life and He may never convict you of the sin in your life. But until that happens you cannot and you will not become a Chrisitan.
For debate:

What the heck is that all about, and can any of y'all put any truth to it.

Mostly the putting truth to it.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

User avatar
EarthScienceguy
Guru
Posts: 2192
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:53 pm
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 43 times
Contact:

Re: Folks, sin, and the holy thing there

Post #111

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #110]
It's a shame the question even hasta be asked.
That was not all of my question. What are you basing your answer on?

User avatar
JoeyKnothead
Banned
Banned
Posts: 20879
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Here
Has thanked: 4093 times
Been thanked: 2572 times

Re: Folks, sin, and the holy thing there

Post #112

Post by JoeyKnothead »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:17 pm [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #110]
It's a shame the question even hasta be asked.
That was not all of my question. What are you basing your answer on?
I based my answer on the fact that, "So, where do you stand on the stoning of the gays" is a question.

It never occurred to me to hurl rocks at gay folks, up til I read it in the bible.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

User avatar
brunumb
Savant
Posts: 5993
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:20 am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 6607 times
Been thanked: 3209 times

Re: Folks, sin, and the holy thing there

Post #113

Post by brunumb »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:12 pm
EarthScienceguy wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:17 pm [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #110]
It's a shame the question even hasta be asked.
That was not all of my question. What are you basing your answer on?
I based my answer on the fact that, "So, where do you stand on the stoning of the gays" is a question.

It never occurred to me to hurl rocks at gay folks, up til I read it in the bible.
But Joey, if God says to gather up rocks and bash in the heads of gay people one must conclude that it is the right and proper thing to do. If we start behaving morally superior to God the next thing you know we will start questioning his very existence. Dangerous path. ;)
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14003
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 906 times
Been thanked: 1629 times
Contact:

Re: Folks, sin, and the holy thing there

Post #114

Post by William »

[Replying to brunumb in post #113]

I think it is acceptable to behave morally superior to any idea of God which has it that stoning people is commendable.

That would be the first place I would look, rather than simply accept any inferior model of any creator of this universe.

Pitchforks and torches are the realm of SA brownshirt-types and it is a pity that such folk are seriously listened to when relaying their ideas of what GOD wants, through their behaviour.

I am not one to miss out just on the say-so of bigots.

[Each to their own of course].

TRANSPONDER
Savant
Posts: 7960
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:05 am
Has thanked: 932 times
Been thanked: 3486 times

Re: Folks, sin, and the holy thing there

Post #115

Post by TRANSPONDER »

William wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:17 pm [Replying to brunumb in post #113]

I think it is acceptable to behave morally superior to any idea of God which has it that stoning people is commendable.

That would be the first place I would look, rather than simply accept any inferior model of any creator of this universe.

Pitchforks and torches are the realm of SA brownshirt-types and it is a pity that such folk are seriously listened to when relaying their ideas of what GOD wants, through their behaviour.

I am not one to miss out just on the say-so of bigots.

[Each to their own of course].
That nicely sums up the argument or atheist (or anti religion) apologetic "There may be a god, but it cannot be That God".

User avatar
JoeyKnothead
Banned
Banned
Posts: 20879
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Here
Has thanked: 4093 times
Been thanked: 2572 times

Re: Folks, sin, and the holy thing there

Post #116

Post by JoeyKnothead »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:08 am
William wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:17 pm [Replying to brunumb in post #113]

I think it is acceptable to behave morally superior to any idea of God which has it that stoning people is commendable.

That would be the first place I would look, rather than simply accept any inferior model of any creator of this universe.

Pitchforks and torches are the realm of SA brownshirt-types and it is a pity that such folk are seriously listened to when relaying their ideas of what GOD wants, through their behaviour.

I am not one to miss out just on the say-so of bigots.

[Each to their own of course].
That nicely sums up the argument or atheist (or anti religion) apologetic "There may be a god, but it cannot be That God".
John 3:somethingorother
For God so loved the world, he said throw rocks at all the gay folk.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

User avatar
Goat
Site Supporter
Posts: 24999
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:09 pm
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 207 times

Re: Folks, sin, and the holy thing there

Post #117

Post by Goat »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 3:00 pm [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #6]


So are you saying Jesus did not exist?
Why do you believe that when virtually all scholars believe that He does exist?

This is why I ask questions to assess the knowledge base of the one I am speaking with, to determine whether or not it is worth my time to hold a conversation with them. Because usually if a person does not have the knowledge base for an in-depth conversation. They usually revert to insults and silly comments, which I do not care to spend my time on.
What extra biblical contemporary evidence do have that he even did exist, even as a human being? That means, evidence from writing that were written before his alleged execution. There is a great deal of evidence that the writings of Josephus were modified by Christians, and it was 60+ years after the supposed death of Jesus anyway. If you read the stories in the New Testament, he made quite a stir in the time period he was supposed to be alive, yet no contemporary historian talked about him. There is physical evidence that at least the stories of John the Baptist were based on a real religious movement, yet, none for Jesus. The evidence that the city now called 'Nazareth' was just a small bunch of hovels in the early part of the 1st century, and no evidence that that bunch of hovels was called "Nazareth". There is evidence that dates to when Emperor Constantine's mother came around the area as a religious tourist, so apparently a town got renamed for the religious pilgrim trade.

That's above and beyond the lack of evidence from the supernatural claims about Jesus.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

User avatar
Goat
Site Supporter
Posts: 24999
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:09 pm
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 207 times

Re: Folks, sin, and the holy thing there

Post #118

Post by Goat »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:12 pm

The Bible states that there is no one who is good.
  • Psalm 14:1
    The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt; their acts are vile. There is no one who does good.
  • Psalm 53:1
    The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and vile in their ways; there is no one who does good.
What makes you think that you might be good.
Well, before you accept that, you would have to accept that the bible is telling the literal truth, and also you are taking the phrase 'there is no god' out of cultural context.
From the early Jewish scholars , it means that the people who do wrong act as if God does not care.

From https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/god
Hebrew thought is intuitive rather than speculative and systematic, and, furthermore, there were no atheists in antiquity. When the psalmist observed: "The fool hath said in his heart 'There is no God'" (Ps. 14:1), he was referring not to disbelief in God's existence, but to the denial of His moral governance. That a divine being or beings existed was universally accepted. There were those, it is true, who did not know YHWH (Ex. 5:2), but all acknowledged the reality of the Godhead. Completely new, however, was Israel's idea of God. Hence this idea is expounded in numerous, though not necessarily

So, you are 1)Making as assumption that the bible is true, something a skeptic is not going to do. and 2) You are taking a phrase out of cultural context to being with.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

User avatar
EarthScienceguy
Guru
Posts: 2192
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:53 pm
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 43 times
Contact:

Re: Folks, sin, and the holy thing there

Post #119

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to Goat in post #118]
Well, before you accept that, you would have to accept that the bible is telling the literal truth, and also you are taking the phrase 'there is no god' out of cultural context.
From the early Jewish scholars, it means that the people who do wrong act as if God does not care.
That is exactly what the Bible says they do. Thank you.

User avatar
EarthScienceguy
Guru
Posts: 2192
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:53 pm
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 43 times
Contact:

Re: Folks, sin, and the holy thing there

Post #120

Post by EarthScienceguy »

Replying to Goat in post #117]
What extra biblical contemporary evidence do have that he even did exist, even as a human being? That means, evidence from writing that were written before his alleged execution. There is a great deal of evidence that the writings of Josephus were modified by Christians, and it was 60+ years after the supposed death of Jesus anyway. If you read the stories in the New Testament, he made quite a stir in the time period he was supposed to be alive, yet no contemporary historian talked about him. There is physical evidence that at least the stories of John the Baptist were based on a real religious movement, yet, none for Jesus. The evidence that the city now called 'Nazareth' was just a small bunch of hovels in the early part of the 1st century, and no evidence that that bunch of hovels was called "Nazareth". There is evidence that dates to when Emperor Constantine's mother came around the area as a religious tourist, so apparently a town got renamed for the religious pilgrim trade.

That's above and beyond the lack of evidence from the supernatural claims about Jesus.
The existence of Jesus is not even really debated any longer.

Bart Ernman atheist/agnostic not sure what he calls himself now even believes that Jesus existed.

His book https://www.bartehrman.com/did-jesus-exist/
  • "In Did Jesus Exist? historian and Bible expert Bart Ehrman confronts these questions, vigorously defends the historicity of Jesus, and provides a compelling portrait of the man from Nazareth. The Jesus you discover here may not be the Jesus you had hoped to meet—but he did exist, whether we like it or not."

Post Reply