What is the Psychology/Mechanics of Religious Belief?

[David Davidovich]

Hello. I'm new to this forum and I hope that this topic is in the correct forum. But I have a question particularly for nonbelievers, however, by no means it is a challenge question. Also, believers are free to post in this topic too.

So, what I would like to ask particularly to nonbelievers is: What is your view on the psychology/mechanics of religious belief and what exactly do you think that believers in God are technically believing in in regard to their desire, their love, their adherence to what they believe is God? And the reason why I ask is because there are various versions of Christianity, which have contradictory and conflicting policies and doctrines, but yet, within these various versions of Christianity, there are people who are sincere and very serious about worshipping God and having a relationship with God. However, for the most part, the people in these various versions of Christianity believe that their way or interpretation of believing and worshipping God is correct while often times believing that Christianity outside of their version of Christianity is incorrect.

And to expound upon these ideas, it seems as if in reality, belief and devotion to God (for many) is believing in the highest principles in your mind that make you feel safe and hopeful about life, along with the highest principles in your mind that produce community and caring and good deeds for others and with others. And of course, this would be in contrast to the darkness and the hopelessness that exists in our world.

So, does anyone have any thoughts about this?

[David Davidovich]

Like probably most members here who are nonbelievers, I haven't delved into the psychology/mechanics of religious belief and therefore could only venture an uneducated guess, which would likely be pretty useless. So I won't.

Well, no, because I didn't ask for the exact and correct scientific answer to this topic (if there even is one), but I only asked for people's viewpoints.

and what exactly do you think that believers in God are technically believing in in regard to their desire, their love, their adherence to what they believe is God?

What is technical belief?

It's just another way of me saying the psychology/mechanics of belief (i.e. what is really going on in a person's head and heart).

And to expound upon these ideas, it seems as if in reality, belief and devotion to God (for many) is believing in the highest principles in your mind that make you feel safe and hopeful about life, along with the highest principles in your mind that produce community and caring and good deeds for others and with others. And of course, this would be in contrast to the darkness and the hopelessness that exists in our world.

Why would you contrast a belief, "believing in the highest principles in your mind," to the condition of the world, "the darkness and the hopelessness that exists in our world"?... Seems like apples vs oranges to me.


.

Well, not really. And if TRANSPONDER doesn't mind, it's like when he was talking about how, "some huge invisible (or a long way out of sight at least) being or beings that are looking out for them" and humans "wanting to be able to control the uncontrollable" and "the instinctive horror of death." Because the "the darkness and the hopelessness that exists in our world" is exactly what would have caused humans to combat that and create a more hopeful and peaceful mindset to live with.

[David Davidovich]

Oh yes, there's also the instinctive horror of death. Very important that aspect.

Yes, I agree. That is a very important aspect.

It is perhaps the most important aspect related to religious belief. Now that we've narrowed the discussion down to a manageable topic, what are your thoughts on the fear of death and religious belief?


Tcg

Why don't you tell me what your thoughts on that are?

[Tcg]

Oh yes, there's also the instinctive horror of death. Very important that aspect.

Yes, I agree. That is a very important aspect.

It is perhaps the most important aspect related to religious belief. Now that we've narrowed the discussion down to a manageable topic, what are your thoughts on the fear of death and religious belief?


Tcg

Why don't you tell me what your thoughts on that are?

I'm waiting to hear yours. Given the detailed OP, you must have some.


Tcg

[TRANSPONDER]

Well, I would have said you'd have to ask the believers, but would you really expect a perceptive answer?

Good point

I can only suggest some very broad hypothesis, but I think there is some human instinct, connected with tribal confidence particularly in whatever Authority -figure it has, that proposes some huge invisible (or a long way out of sight at least) being or beings that are looking out for them. After that, we get into a lot of stuff about wanting to be able to control the uncontrollable (fate) and then the superstitions and sacrifices start. There's also the aspect of gods of course being ones' own identity raised to super -person level, some not only think they are communicating with the gods but maybe are gods.

Of course, I could be wrong.

Thank you, TRANSPONDER. And so far, you seem to be the only person who really 'got' my OP. Also, I think you gave an insightful hypothesis. And I especially liked what you said about wanting to control the uncontrollable.

Oh yes, there's also the instinctive horror of death. Very important that aspect.

Yes, I agree. That is a very important aspect.

Thanks for the thanks. I have seen a lot of evidence that religion and ritual (not to speak of sacrifice) was connected with matters of survival that they wanted to control. Hunting before they started farming and the seasons and weather after they started farming.

Death was also a great motivator. I think fear of death is a survival instinct, just as is fear of the unknown and the misinterpretation of possible threats. The fear of death and the mystery of decease and 'Where has Granddad gone?' led to belief in spirits, fear of ghosts, beliefs about underworlds and this whole 'imperfect human perception' thing. While the believers try to undermine the findings of science, when it's actually religious and superstitious thought - instinctive thinking - that misconstrues our data and experiences, it is science that used double blinds and critical thinking to avoid such traps. That can lead (I do assure you) to a demystifying of death whereas religion and superstition continues to come up with all sorts of nonsense. I suppose what I'm getting at is the believer case for the spirit through a pretty universal ghost belief (whether or not an afterlife and heaven and a religion is attached). Since just about all human societies have believed in a spirit and ghosts, it must be true, right?

I wonder. Since there is not a shred of decent evidence for it, could it be a common human instinctive belief which no empirical validity? Like Royalty. Yep, our human Alpha breeding pair has great political clout and a lot of superstition about it and it's all total nonsense It really is. We truly seem unable to understand or face the fact that we are apes driven by tribal instincts that we hardly recognise let alone understand.

[David Davidovich]

Oh yes, there's also the instinctive horror of death. Very important that aspect.

Yes, I agree. That is a very important aspect.

It is perhaps the most important aspect related to religious belief. Now that we've narrowed the discussion down to a manageable topic, what are your thoughts on the fear of death and religious belief?


Tcg

Why don't you tell me what your thoughts on that are?

I'm waiting to hear yours. Given the detailed OP, you must have some.


Tcg

Sorry, but I didn't want to be rude because death being "the most important aspect related to religious belief" and that having narrowed down this topic to a manageable topic is incorrect. And yes, it is an important factor related to how religion got its start in the first place, but it's not the main factor that I wanted to hang my hat on for this topic. Therefore, seeing that you still didn't understand the meaning of this topic, rather than tell you that you were wrong again and have you steer this topic in the wrong direction, I just decided to flip your question back on you. However, if you are not able to understand the theme of this topic, you are free not to post in this thread.

[William]

Hello. I'm new to this forum and I hope that this topic is in the correct forum. But I have a question particularly for nonbelievers, however, by no means it is a challenge question. Also, believers are free to post in this topic too.

So, what I would like to ask particularly to nonbelievers is: What is your view on the psychology/mechanics of religious belief and what exactly do you think that believers in God are technically believing in in regard to their desire, their love, their adherence to what they believe is God? And the reason why I ask is because there are various versions of Christianity, which have contradictory and conflicting policies and doctrines, but yet, within these various versions of Christianity, there are people who are sincere and very serious about worshipping God and having a relationship with God. However, for the most part, the people in these various versions of Christianity believe that their way or interpretation of believing and worshipping God is correct while often times believing that Christianity outside of their version of Christianity is incorrect.

Welcome to the forum David.

There are as many beliefs in "God" as there are humans who have beliefs in "God".

It isn't so much how the individual dresses up their image of "God" that is important, but rather - that the idea of "God" in relation to the individuals experience [which can only be subjective] within this mysterious universe is as natural as the universe itself, and a perfectly acceptable thing for consciousness to be thinking about.

And to expound upon these ideas, it seems as if in reality, belief and devotion to God (for many) is believing in the highest principles in your mind that make you feel safe and hopeful about life, along with the highest principles in your mind that produce community and caring and good deeds for others and with others. And of course, this would be in contrast to the darkness and the hopelessness that exists in our world.

The universe being what it is and individuate consciousnesses being what they are within it - the tendency to be afraid is natural enough. What isn't very natural is in off-setting that tendency with beliefs in things outside of said universe.

Darkness and hopelessness remain, regardless of beliefs because the beliefs [apparently] are not in themselves able to change the reality significantly enough to act as an antidote or a way in which to 'fix' the problem of fear.

Darkness itself is simply a theistic word for the idea of ignorance. Hopelessness appears to remain re 'The World' [in this universe] regardless of what hope one places in "not The World".

[David Davidovich]

Well, I would have said you'd have to ask the believers, but would you really expect a perceptive answer?

Good point

I can only suggest some very broad hypothesis, but I think there is some human instinct, connected with tribal confidence particularly in whatever Authority -figure it has, that proposes some huge invisible (or a long way out of sight at least) being or beings that are looking out for them. After that, we get into a lot of stuff about wanting to be able to control the uncontrollable (fate) and then the superstitions and sacrifices start. There's also the aspect of gods of course being ones' own identity raised to super -person level, some not only think they are communicating with the gods but maybe are gods.

Of course, I could be wrong.

Thank you, TRANSPONDER. And so far, you seem to be the only person who really 'got' my OP. Also, I think you gave an insightful hypothesis. And I especially liked what you said about wanting to control the uncontrollable.

Oh yes, there's also the instinctive horror of death. Very important that aspect.

Yes, I agree. That is a very important aspect.

Thanks for the thanks. I have seen a lot of evidence that religion and ritual (not to speak of sacrifice) was connected with matters of survival that they wanted to control. Hunting before they started farming and the seasons and weather after they started farming.

Yes, I myself have read articles about that.

Death was also a great motivator. I think fear of death is a survival instinct, just as is fear of the unknown and the misinterpretation of possible threats.

Yes. I have also read where it was actually safer for ancient humans to suspect or fear that a sharp-tooth predator may be lurking nearby so that a person would not be caught off guard in case there really was one lurking nearby... and even if there was no sharp-tooth predator nearby.

The fear of death and the mystery of decease and 'Where has Granddad gone?' led to belief in spirits, fear of ghosts, beliefs about underworlds and this whole 'imperfect human perception' thing.

Right. Also, I've actually read that smoke itself was related to ancient humankind's belief in spirits.

While the believers try to undermine the findings of science, when it's actually religious and superstitious thought - instinctive thinking - that misconstrues our data and experiences, it is science that used double blinds and critical thinking to avoid such traps. That can lead (I do assure you) to a demystifying of death whereas religion and superstition continues to come up with all sorts of nonsense. I suppose what I'm getting at is the believer case for the spirit through a pretty universal ghost belief (whether or not an afterlife and heaven and a religion is attached). Since just about all human societies have believed in a spirit and ghosts, it must be true, right?

Well, I've heard Christian apologists argue that the dispersion of mankind throughout the earth and the creation of various languages related to the events of the tower of Babel story in Genesis 11 is proof as to why all of humankind have similar ancient religious stories. lol

I wonder. Since there is not a shred of decent evidence for it, could it be a common human instinctive belief which no empirical validity? Like Royalty. Yep, our human Alpha breeding pair has great political clout and a lot of superstition about it and it's all total nonsense It really is. We truly seem unable to understand or face the fact that we are apes driven by tribal instincts that we hardly recognise let alone understand.

Well, royalty like politics is a man-made system that is merely based upon what humans have created as being a ruling force for the purpose of giving structure and laws and policies to society.

Also, I wanted to mention another direction that I wanted this topic to go in. Now, I have thought about this topic before, however, what actually prompted me to get online and start a discussion about it on a religious discussion board is that I had recently watched a reality show on television (which I don't want to get into all the details about) where one individual's Christan faith and Christian community were very important to him, but it came to a point where this person's reality was in direct conflict with the beliefs of his church, and this person really wrestled with that conflict. However, eventually, this person found a church that was congruent with his reality, and which in turn resolved the conflict that he struggled with. But from there, I wondered more about what was really going on when it came to the psychology of religion and what were the actual the mechanics of it in a person's mind since in the case that I just mentioned, it wasn't so much about the policies of a church, but it was more about a church that one would be able to feel comfortable in and at the same time feeling like one hadn't given up God. Although, fundamentalist apologists would say that this person was mislead and was in a false relationship with God, however, this person was at peace and felt as he was still worshipping God.

[David Davidovich]

Hello. I'm new to this forum and I hope that this topic is in the correct forum. But I have a question particularly for nonbelievers, however, by no means it is a challenge question. Also, believers are free to post in this topic too.

So, what I would like to ask particularly to nonbelievers is: What is your view on the psychology/mechanics of religious belief and what exactly do you think that believers in God are technically believing in in regard to their desire, their love, their adherence to what they believe is God? And the reason why I ask is because there are various versions of Christianity, which have contradictory and conflicting policies and doctrines, but yet, within these various versions of Christianity, there are people who are sincere and very serious about worshipping God and having a relationship with God. However, for the most part, the people in these various versions of Christianity believe that their way or interpretation of believing and worshipping God is correct while often times believing that Christianity outside of their version of Christianity is incorrect.

Welcome to the forum David.

Thank you, William.

There are as many beliefs in "God" as there are humans who have beliefs in "God".

It isn't so much how the individual dresses up their image of "God" that is important, but rather - that the idea of "God" in relation to the individuals experience [which can only be subjective] within this mysterious universe is as natural as the universe itself, and a perfectly acceptable thing for consciousness to be thinking about.

Good point. Also, I have nothing against the idea of "God" in relation to the individual's experience (expect when that idea or belief causes harm to others), however, I am just trying to understand how the mechanics of this idea works in an individual's mind. (See my post before this one.)

And to expound upon these ideas, it seems as if in reality, belief and devotion to God (for many) is believing in the highest principles in your mind that make you feel safe and hopeful about life, along with the highest principles in your mind that produce community and caring and good deeds for others and with others. And of course, this would be in contrast to the darkness and the hopelessness that exists in our world.

The universe being what it is and individuate consciousnesses being what they are within it - the tendency to be afraid is natural enough. What isn't very natural is in off-setting that tendency with beliefs in things outside of said universe.

So, what do you mean by "off-setting" and "outside of said universe"?

Darkness and hopelessness remain, regardless of beliefs because the beliefs [apparently] are not in themselves able to change the reality significantly enough to act as an antidote or a way in which to 'fix' the problem of fear.

But often times, what people are looking for within religious belief is some sort of hopefulness to counteract hopelessness (which in itself is subjective), and people are able to accomplish that within their state of mind.

Darkness itself is simply a theistic word for the idea of ignorance. Hopelessness appears to remain re 'The World' [in this universe] regardless of what hope one places in "not The World".

Sorry, but I disagree with what you said about the word "darkness" being a theistic word. But for me (and I'm guessing for others too) it's more a catchphrase for hardship and despair and bad times, which really do itself in reality. And once again, I believe that the words "hopefulness" and "hopelessness" are purely subjective.

[William]

[Replying to David Davidovich in post #18]

Sorry, but I disagree with what you said about the word "darkness" being a theistic word.

Nonetheless, in theistic terms evil is what darkness refers to. As such, it translates into that which is not known and best avoided by remaining ignorant about, which equates to the tendency to imagine better universes ...

But for me (and I'm guessing for others too) it's more a catchphrase for hardship and despair and bad times, which really do itself in reality. And once again, I believe that the words "hopefulness" and "hopelessness" are purely subjective.

Hardship and despair and bad times are simply fruit of the tree of ignorance.

This is possibly the reason why folk have the tendency to demonize this reality and place their hopefulness in a reality outside of this one...

THat which one is ignornat of need not be feared but investigated

[David Davidovich]

Hardship and despair and bad times are simply fruit of the tree of ignorance.

Tell that to hungry people in third world countries and war-torn countries.

Also, I noticed that you didn't answer my question about what you meant by "off-setting" and "outside of said universe."