Christians: aren't you embarrassed and angry?

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Avoice
Guru
Posts: 1006
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:41 am
Location: USA / ISRAEL
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Christians: aren't you embarrassed and angry?

Post #1

Post by Avoice »

Your belief and truth of Christianity is said by the NT writers to be upheld by the Hebrew Scriptures.

Yet when you defend your faith you turn to King James or the Septugiant to support the claims if the NT.

The NT writers KNEW the Hebrew Scriptures was the highest authority by which all claims must be tested.

The NT writers convinced billions of people by claiming it's doctrine is supported by the Hebrew Scriptures. Yet when it comes to showing that proof you won't go to the Hebrew. You use a translation. And have the audacity to say the Greek Septugiant is the authority. The truth you claim to have you say is upheld by highest authority - Hebrew Scriptures. But when you have to prove it you cheat

Aren't you angry at the NT writers making you have to cheat in order to make their claims appear valid? Aren't you embarrassed that your truth will fail if forced to be seen in the light of the Hebrew Scriptures? That even right now you will be forced into giving a torcherous explaination even though no explaination you could give will ever give anything other than the Hebrew the authority to determine the truth.

TRANSPONDER
Savant
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:05 am
Has thanked: 933 times
Been thanked: 3488 times

Re: Christians: aren't you embarrassed and angry?

Post #31

Post by TRANSPONDER »

You can fiddle all you like, but John says clearly that Jesus is God. Image of God, and a man, but also God. The rest is peripherals. I could look for other confirmation than John, but John says it. If you want to say that John has no idea what he is talking about, I don't mind. ;)

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 11353
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 313 times
Been thanked: 359 times

Re: Christians: aren't you embarrassed and angry?

Post #32

Post by 1213 »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:21 am You can fiddle all you like, but John says clearly that Jesus is God. ...
It would be helpful, if you could show a scripture that says "Jesus is God".

TRANSPONDER
Savant
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:05 am
Has thanked: 933 times
Been thanked: 3488 times

Re: Christians: aren't you embarrassed and angry?

Post #33

Post by TRANSPONDER »

1213 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:46 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:21 am You can fiddle all you like, but John says clearly that Jesus is God. ...
It would be helpful, if you could show a scripture that says "Jesus is God".
I already did in your #30 which replies to mine:

"John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."

This says clearly that Jesus is himself God, and all the other stuff that you may cherry -pick about image of is addition to that basic fact. That's if you don't pick and choose which bits of the Gospel you elect to believe.

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 11353
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 313 times
Been thanked: 359 times

Re: Christians: aren't you embarrassed and angry?

Post #34

Post by 1213 »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:13 am
1213 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:46 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:21 am You can fiddle all you like, but John says clearly that Jesus is God. ...
It would be helpful, if you could show a scripture that says "Jesus is God".
I already did in your #30 which replies to mine:

"John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."
...
Ok, sorry, I didn't notice it, because translation that I normally use says it like this:

No one has seen God at any time. The one and only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
John 1:18

What translation are you using?

User avatar
Clownboat
Savant
Posts: 9342
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:42 pm
Has thanked: 883 times
Been thanked: 1242 times

Re: Christians: aren't you embarrassed and angry?

Post #35

Post by Clownboat »

1213 wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:24 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:13 am
1213 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:46 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:21 am You can fiddle all you like, but John says clearly that Jesus is God. ...
It would be helpful, if you could show a scripture that says "Jesus is God".
I already did in your #30 which replies to mine:

"John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."
...
Ok, sorry, I didn't notice it, because translation that I normally use says it like this:

No one has seen God at any time. The one and only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
John 1:18

What translation are you using?
New International Version
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

New Living Translation
No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us

Berean Study Bible
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.

New American Standard Bible
No one has seen God at any time; God the only Son, who is in the arms of the Father, He has explained Him.

NASB 1995
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

Amplified Bible
No one has seen God [His essence, His divine nature] at any time; the [One and] only begotten God [that is, the unique Son] who is in the intimate presence of the Father, He has explained Him [and interpreted and revealed the awesome wonder of the Father].

Christian Standard Bible
No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself God and is at the Father’s side —he has revealed him.

Christian Standard Bible
No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself God and is at the Father’s side —he has revealed him.

Contemporary English Version
No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.

Contemporary English Version
No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.

Good News Translation
No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is the same as God and is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

New American Bible
No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.

New Revised Standard Version
No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known.
1213 wrote:It would be helpful, if you could show a scripture that says "Jesus is God".
You are welcome for the help. Now what do you have to say?
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

TRANSPONDER
Savant
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:05 am
Has thanked: 933 times
Been thanked: 3488 times

Re: Christians: aren't you embarrassed and angry?

Post #36

Post by TRANSPONDER »

1213 wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:24 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:13 am
1213 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:46 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:21 am You can fiddle all you like, but John says clearly that Jesus is God. ...
It would be helpful, if you could show a scripture that says "Jesus is God".
I already did in your #30 which replies to mine:

"John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."
...
Ok, sorry, I didn't notice it, because translation that I normally use says it like this:

No one has seen God at any time. The one and only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
John 1:18

What translation are you using?
Ah I see, Translation -shopping. Well I suppose I shall have to try to get a consensus or check the Greek. But you will be aware of the Arian heresy that came under the hammer because it did Not accept that Jesus was God rather than just a man chosen by God?

TRANSPONDER
Savant
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:05 am
Has thanked: 933 times
Been thanked: 3488 times

Re: Christians: aren't you embarrassed and angry?

Post #37

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Well, I think you get that one. My own Bible says

'The only Son, who is in the bosom of his father' and all the interlinear translations I could check has: 18 God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father—he did declare.

Only begotten from Monogetes. so it seems that you are right and John 1.18 does not actually say that Jesus Is God but was begotten by God and is with (in the bosom of) God. It would seem that many translations prefer to Interpret the Bible to reflect the mainstream Dogma that Jesus is actually God as well as man. I'm glad to be corrected.

User avatar
Aetixintro
Site Supporter
Posts: 918
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:18 am
Location: Metropolitan-Oslo, Norway, Europe
Has thanked: 431 times
Been thanked: 27 times
Contact:

Re: Christians: aren't you embarrassed and angry?

Post #38

Post by Aetixintro »

[Replying to Avoice in post #1]

I'm absolutely not angry or embarrassed because of the Bible. I believe in God more firmly now than before because I know God has been proven by science too. It is the atheists who are losing by Truth. They are at odds with life because they are wrong. Darwin's Theory of Evolution, I predict, is going to be proven false! And lots more that has been held dear by atheists and other non-believers.

We, Christians, storm on with life, full of determination and stalwart beliefs about God, Heaven, the Holy Ghost, Jesus and more! Thanks. :thanks: :D
I'm cool! :) - Stronger Religion every day! Also by "mathematical Religion", the eternal forms, God closing the door on corrupt humanity, possibly!

User avatar
Clownboat
Savant
Posts: 9342
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:42 pm
Has thanked: 883 times
Been thanked: 1242 times

Re: Christians: aren't you embarrassed and angry?

Post #39

Post by Clownboat »

Aetixintro wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:29 pm [Replying to Avoice in post #1]

I'm absolutely not angry or embarrassed because of the Bible. I believe in God more firmly now than before because I know God has been proven by science too. It is the atheists who are losing by Truth. They are at odds with life because they are wrong. Darwin's Theory of Evolution, I predict, is going to be proven false! And lots more that has been held dear by atheists and other non-believers.

We, Christians, storm on with life, full of determination and stalwart beliefs about God, Heaven, the Holy Ghost, Jesus and more! Thanks. :thanks: :D
Holy crap! Allahu Akbar much? :roll:
Your words are not debate worthy and would be more appropriate when yelled from atop a soap box on a street corner.

If they were debate worthy, you would spell out why you think the Theory of Evolution will be proven false. You would spell out how science has proven, not only a god, but your god. You would spell out these 'lots more things that atheists hold dear'. These would be some things we could then investigate. Instead, you type words in our faces.

When I was a Christian, I found street evangalizing to bolster my faith more then these types of empty religious platitudes. Have you tried evangelizing to bolster your faith? You may prefer it. We found that children were the best to evangelize to and offering them tickets to heaven is a great opener. Here, the ratio of thinking adults will be much, much higher and your unevidenced statements will be rejected for being unevidenced much more likely. Children are easier to dupe afterall and some will even believe your claims. I experienced this first hand, many times and in many countries.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

TRANSPONDER
Savant
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:05 am
Has thanked: 933 times
Been thanked: 3488 times

Re: Christians: aren't you embarrassed and angry?

Post #40

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Aetixintro wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:29 pm [Replying to Avoice in post #1]

I'm absolutely not angry or embarrassed because of the Bible. I believe in God more firmly now than before because I know God has been proven by science too. It is the atheists who are losing by Truth. They are at odds with life because they are wrong. Darwin's Theory of Evolution, I predict, is going to be proven false! And lots more that has been held dear by atheists and other non-believers.

We, Christians, storm on with life, full of determination and stalwart beliefs about God, Heaven, the Holy Ghost, Jesus and more! Thanks. :thanks: :D
:D You just keep telling yourself that. We Goddless bastards will continue debunking the Bible, God claim and Christianity with science and debunking the false and flawed arguments of the Bible -apologists.

Post Reply