Easter Traditions?

[Tcg]

Are there any Easter Traditions that are related specifically to Jesus' resurrection? The Easter eggs hunts, bunnies and pastel-colored candies seem to be a celebration of spring. Certainly, sermons will be preached on Jesus' resurrection, but are there any Easter Traditions that Christians practice with their families that are focused on Jesus?


Tcg

[JehovahsWitness]

(the 'bread' feast being the entire Passover week). ...

The "bread feast" as you call it started on the 15th (the day after the sedar meal, which was on the 14th) and lasted seven days (running from the 15-21).


JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

THE PASSOVER, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ... SABBATH KEEPING

[TRANSPONDER]

(the 'bread' feast being the entire Passover week). ...

The "bread feast" as you call it started on the 15th (the day after the sedar meal, which was on the 14th) and lasted seven days (running from the 15-21).


JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

THE PASSOVER, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ... SABBATH KEEPING

I know. You, YOU are the one arguing for some kind of 'Temple' feast that the Priests ate a day or so after the 'Family' seder, which is why the priests at the trial before Pilate had to stay ritually clean to eat it. You are the one making that claim and you are the one that has to substantiate it and you have been told, repeatedly, that pointing to the week long 'bread' feast will not do it. You have to provide specific reference to such a feast (e.g in some Jewish source) and kindly do not refer back to previous posts which are the ones that got you into this position.

[JehovahsWitness]

(the 'bread' feast being the entire Passover week). ...

The "bread feast" as you call it started on the 15th (the day after the sedar meal, which was on the 14th) and lasted seven days (running from the 15-21).


JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

THE PASSOVER, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ... SABBATH KEEPING

I know. You, YOU are the one arguing for some kind of 'Temple' feast that the Priests ate a day or so after the 'Family' seder...

I have never once in this thread typed the words "a day or so" , nor have I implied only the Priests kept the festival. Instead of what I presume was is your attempt to paraphrase, why not simply use the quote button found at the head of each post and reporduce my words as written which I choose very carefully. See below ...

[JehovahsWitness]

JOHN 18: 28

Then they led Jesus from Caʹia·phas to the governor’s residence. It was now early in the morning. But they themselves did not enter into the governor’s residence, so that they [The Priests] would not get defiled but could eat the Passover.

DOES THE WRITER OF JOHN (18:28 ) INDICATE JESUS WAS TRIED AND EXECUTED BEFORE THE PASSOVER SEDAR MEAL OF NISAN 14?

No. Since it is likely John's "evening meal" of CHAPTER 13 through 17 , was also the occassion of the eating of the Sedar Passover (see post #173 ), this would mean John (like the other gospel writers) had Jesus stand before Pilate on the morning of the 14th. It is logical then that John's reference to "the Passover" at John 18:28 refered to the "Festival of unfermented cakes", which began the next day on Nisan 15 and was part of the Passover "season".







JOHN'S PASSOVER

When was the "day of preparation" ?
viewtopic.php?p=1082233#p1082233

Does John 13:1 not indicate John's "evening meal" was BEFORE the Passover (Sedar) ?
viewtopic.php?p=1083018#p1083018

Was John's "evening meal" the (Sedar) PASSOVER meal of the Synoptics?
viewtopic.php?p=1082886#p1082886

Does JOHN 18:28 indicate at Jesus trial he had not yet eaten the sedar meal ?
viewtopic.php?p=1083033#p1083033

Does Johns employ of metonym mean he could not be referring to 15th Nisan at John 18:28? [eating a festival]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 34#p998834

Were the Passover (sedar) meal and 7 day temple festival REALLY on two different dates?
viewtopic.php?p=1082314#p1082314

Was John being deliberately ambiguious with his time markers?
viewtopic.php?p=998858#p998858

[TRANSPONDER]

(the 'bread' feast being the entire Passover week). ...

The "bread feast" as you call it started on the 15th (the day after the sedar meal, which was on the 14th) and lasted seven days (running from the 15-21).


JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

THE PASSOVER, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ... SABBATH KEEPING

I know. You, YOU are the one arguing for some kind of 'Temple' feast that the Priests ate a day or so after the 'Family' seder...

I have never once in this thread typed the words "a day or so" , nor have I implied only the Priests kept the festival. Instead of what I presume was is your attempt to paraphrase, why not simply use the quote button found at the head of each post and reporduce my words as written which I choose very carefully. See below ...

No I tryped it to broadly cover the first and second day from the First day when the lambs were killed to the Seder following.You won't get anywhere by trying to score irrelevant nitpicking points.

[TRANSPONDER]

(the 'bread' feast being the entire Passover week). ...

The "bread feast" as you call it started on the 15th (the day after the sedar meal, which was on the 14th) and lasted seven days (running from the 15-21).


JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

THE PASSOVER, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ... SABBATH KEEPING

I know. You, YOU are the one arguing for some kind of 'Temple' feast that the Priests ate a day or so after the 'Family' seder...

I have never once in this thread typed the words "a day or so" , nor have I implied only the Priests kept the festival. Instead of what I presume was is your attempt to paraphrase, why not simply use the quote button found at the head of each post and reporduce my words as written which I choose very carefully. See below ...

No, you didn't type that. I typed it to broadly cover the first and second day from the First day when the lambs were killed to the Seder following.You won't get anywhere by trying to score irrelevant nitpicking points.

JOHN 18: 28

Then they led Jesus from Caʹia·phas to the governor’s residence. It was now early in the morning. But they themselves did not enter into the governor’s residence, so that they [The Priests] would not get defiled but could eat the Passover.

DOES THE WRITER OF JOHN (18:28 ) INDICATE JESUS WAS TRIED AND EXECUTED BEFORE THE PASSOVER SEDAR MEAL OF NISAN 14?

No. Since it is likely John's "evening meal" of CHAPTER 13 through 17 , was also the occassion of the eating of the Sedar Passover (see post #173 ), this would mean John (like the other gospel writers) had Jesus stand before Pilate on the morning of the 14th. It is logical then that John's reference to "the Passover" at John 18:28 refered to the "Festival of unfermented cakes", which began the next day on Nisan 15 and was part of the Passover "season".







JOHN'S PASSOVER

When was the "day of preparation" ?
viewtopic.php?p=1082233#p1082233

Does John 13:1 not indicate John's "evening meal" was BEFORE the Passover (Sedar) ?
viewtopic.php?p=1083018#p1083018

Was John's "evening meal" the (Sedar) PASSOVER meal of the Synoptics?
viewtopic.php?p=1082886#p1082886

Does JOHN 18:28 indicate at Jesus trial he had not yet eaten the sedar meal ?
viewtopic.php?p=1083033#p1083033

Does Johns employ of metonym mean he could not be referring to 15th Nisan at John 18:28? [eating a festival]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 34#p998834

Were the Passover (sedar) meal and 7 day temple festival REALLY on two different dates?
viewtopic.php?p=1082314#p1082314

Was John being deliberately ambiguious with his time markers?
viewtopic.php?p=998858#p998858

It is not so much a logical claim as something that you (and maybe the JW apologists) invented to get over the problem. What I read (and posted) from the Jewish encyclopaedia is that the bread feast covered the whole week and the Seder was apparently on the 15th Nisan evening after the first day. (the two feasts being combined). But I read nothing to show that the 'bread feast ' was some separate feast after the arrest and trial which the Priests had to stay ritually clean to eat. John states the day of preparation was to eat the Passover and not (no mention) of the Sabbath (though it would appear to fall on the Saturday). I know why you want to turn the week long matzoh fest into a later special 'Passover' feast, but you need more than what you call 'logic'. The Jews are very careful about ritual practice today and in the past. If there was such a separate feast occurring later than the Seder, they would say so.

You need to show it (not just claim it) or I have to stick with the better hypothesis that John sees the Seder Passover as falling on the Saturday, after the crucifixion which (Friday) was the first day, when the lambs were symbolically killed along with Jesus.

Given that there are many such contradictions in the gospels, doesn't it make better logic to assume that's what John did? Even if it doesn't suit your desire to wish away the contradictions?

Incidentally i love the painting of this very supposedly secret illegal trial (I recall you tried to argue) with a crowd present apparently in the public open air.

[JehovahsWitness]

What I read (and posted) from the Jewish encyclopaedia is that the bread feast covered the whole week and the Seder was apparently on the 15th Nisan evening after the first day. (the two feasts being combined).

WHEN WAS THE SEDAR MEAL MOVED FROM NISAN 14 TO THE 15TH ?

The Sedar was moved to the 15th when the two feast were combined ; there is evidence that in the first century the original bible mandate was observed:

• Josephus, Antiquities 3.10.5
  In the month of Xanthicus, which is by us called Nisan, and is the beginning of our year, on the fourteenth day of the lunar month, when the sun is in Aries, (for in this month it was that we were delivered from bondage under the Egyptians,) the law ordained that we should every year slay that sacrifice which I before told you we slew when we came out of Egypt, and which was called the Passover; and so we do celebrate this passover in companies, leaving nothing of what we sacrifice till the day following. The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the passover, and falls on the fifteenth day of the month, and continues seven days, wherein they feed on unleavened bread...

RELATED POSTS

When was "the first day of the Passover festival"?
viewtopic.php?p=1082286#p1082286

Were the Passover (sedar) meal and 7 day temple festival REALLY on two different dates?
viewtopic.php?p=1082314#p1082314

[Difflugia]

...John says that the Last Supper took place before the Passover.

He does not say that. Its very simple, you may prove otherwise by producing the chapter and verse where it says "the Last Supper took place before the Passover".

He does. John 13:1-2 is the chapter and verse, your desire to read it otherwise notwithstanding.

Unless John is being sloppy with his Greek here and only here, the language is still being modified by the prepositional phrase.

Yes because Jesus while eating the meal (whatever that was) continued to know what he knew before.

That would be John being sloppy with his Greek because that's neither how typical Greek narrative is constructed nor how John constructs it elsewhere. There are many, many examples in John's Gospel where the author begins a narrative sequence with a prepositional phrase and intends it to apply to the entire sequence, including many with subordinate clauses with tense structures similar to this one. The pattern is a prepositional phrase, a clause using a verb tense other than aorist to set the scene, then the first action of the sequence as an aorist verb. Compare John 7:37-8:1, for example. It begins like this:

• Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, [prepositional phrase]
• Jesus having stood, [perfect tense subordinate clause]
• he cried out, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink!" [aorist tense event within the narrative sequence]

John uses this construction throughout his Gospel. All you have to do is find a single counterexample to the pattern. Find a single example where John begins a narrative sequence with a prepositional phrase, but that phrase doesn't apply to the sequential series of aorist verbs. I skimmed through the Gospel and didn't see one, but maybe I just wasn't thorough enough, missed one, and you'll be lucky enough to find it. If you think I'm blowing smoke about how others wrote in Greek, flip through Josephus. Even in English, though it's harder to separate aorist from other past tenses, the overall pattern overwhelmingly holds.

Once again, you're in the position of arguing for a doctrinal position that runs counter to a biblical one. In order to preserve your doctrine, you must argue that the Bible doesn't mean what it says. If this were Mark, my position would be much more difficult because Mark actually was sloppy with his Greek. Since John was decidedly not sloppy, you're the one with the tough row to hoe.

[JehovahsWitness]

DOES JOHN 13:1,2 ESTABLISH WHEN JESUS ATE HIS LAST SIPPER OR WHEN HE KNEW HE WAS GOING TO DIE?

JOHN 13:1

Now because he knew before the festival of the Passover that his hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father, Jesus, having loved his own who were in the world, loved them to the end.

The words "before the passover" are not specific time markers for subsequent events described but an adverbial for what Jesus "knew".

To illustrate: Because she knew before she met her husband she wanted a big family, she came off birth control and they started trying for a baby as soon as they were married. Does this mean the woman started trying for a baby with her husband before she met and married him? Obviously what she knew before was not a time marker for the actions described, only the a comment on her prevailing attitude during the events that follow.

There are many, many examples in John's Gospel where the author begins a narrative sequence with a prepositional phrase and intends it to apply to the entire sequence, including many with subordinate clauses with tense structures similar to this one.

As is the case in John 13:1, 2. The question is WHAT applies to the entire sequence? The verb being "knew" and the adverbial time clause ie. he knew it before the Passover remains for the entire sequence, as in: he knew it before, he knew it during (the sequence) and he knew it to the end (of the sequence).

Nobody is suggesting the strawman that John is breaking with good grammar or his established writing style, only that we stop ignoring the elephant in the room which is the entire adverbial time clause explicitly states what Jesus knew not what He ate:

Not: Before the Passover he ate...
But: Before the Passover he knew ...

Therefore the dependent clause equals that which Jesus knew before and (for the entire sequence ...) while he was eating and does not establish when he was eating.

[TRANSPONDER]

What I read (and posted) from the Jewish encyclopaedia is that the bread feast covered the whole week and the Seder was apparently on the 15th Nisan evening after the first day. (the two feasts being combined).

WHEN WAS THE SEDAR MEAL MOVED TO'THE 15TH ?

The Sedar was moved to the 15th when the two feast were combined ; there is evidence that in the first century the original bible mandate was observed:

• Josephus, Antiquities 3.10.5
  In the month of Xanthicus, which is by us called Nisan, and is the beginning of our year, on the fourteenth day of the lunar month, when the sun is in Aries, (for in this month it was that we were delivered from bondage under the Egyptians,) the law ordained that we should every year slay that sacrifice which I before told you we slew when we came out of Egypt, and which was called the Passover; and so we do celebrate this passover in companies, leaving nothing of what we sacrifice till the day following. The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the passover, and falls on the fifteenth day of the month, and continues seven days, wherein they feed on unleavened bread...

RELATED POSTS

When was "the first day of the Passover festival"?
viewtopic.php?p=1082286#p1082286

Were the Passover (sedar) meal and 7 day temple festival REALLY on two different dates?
viewtopic.php?p=1082314#p1082314

Ok. What do you have on the actual point under discussion?