Easter Traditions?

[Tcg]

Are there any Easter Traditions that are related specifically to Jesus' resurrection? The Easter eggs hunts, bunnies and pastel-colored candies seem to be a celebration of spring. Certainly, sermons will be preached on Jesus' resurrection, but are there any Easter Traditions that Christians practice with their families that are focused on Jesus?


Tcg

[brunumb]

...but that's not what the Bible itself says.

No explicitly no, but that is why critical thinking skills are useful.

Sounds more like a need for imaginative creativity to me. Where necessary, the Bible doesn't say what it says, it says what you want it to say.

[TRANSPONDER]

You are messing me about . Mark 14.12 On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus’ disciples asked him, “Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?”

Yes, " the first day" here refers to the Passover season whichnstarted with the Family based home (Sedar) meal and continued on to'the TEMPLE BASED festival of unleaven bread. For further details see my post : When was "the first day of the Passover festival"?
viewtopic.php?p=1082286#p1082286

..You know that Jesus and his disciples eat the Passover before the arrest and trial which is when the priests are staying ritually pure to as to eat the Passover. Which you claim is a Temple passover held later than the 'Family' Passover meal. Can you substantiate this claim of yours?

I already did ... Were the Passover (sedar) meal and 7 day temple festival REALLY on two different dates?
viewtopic.php?p=1082314#p1082314

. I have posted extracts from the Jewish Encylopaedia which don't appear to mention any such thing. Can you substantiate this claim of yours?

Source The Jewish Encylopedia

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

THE PASSOVER, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ... SABBATH KEEPING

What I did not find was any suggestion that there was a family Passover meal on the 14th.[...] and 'Temple' Passover meal eaten a day or so later. .

See above

No. I have already posted on this myself. At bezst the 'bread' Passover appears to be a week long bread festival that was combined with a sacrificed meat feast after the first day (sacrifice of lambs and Seder). What you have to show is any reason to suppose there was a 'temple' Passover meal eaten a day or so later. If you could do so, that might explain this Passover eaten by the Priests after the last supper, but you have to do better than point to the week long bread feast that includes the Seder and claim that's a Passover meal eaten by priests a day o so later.I know you assume the Bible must be correct so that must be the explanation. But since i know the Bible is not correct, that is not a valid assumkption without you finding more that a hypothesis.

[TRANSPONDER]

In the Synoptics, Judas betrayed Jesus after the Passover Seder. In John, Judas betrayed Jesus after a meal that wasn't the Passover Seder.

This is circular reasoning, you have yet to refute the evidence that the two events happened on the same evening (ie they were different moments during the same meal).

...If you want to imagine that John's story took place on the same day as it did in the other Gospels, that's as good a doctrinal position as any ...

Thank you for that admission. Yes perhaps I wasnt clear - John focuses on different events or actions on the same evening as the other gospels. The common elements indicate Jesus bread and wine ceremony happened sometime in the course of the same meal the others report on. In short during the synoptics passover meal, Jesus inaugurated the memorial of his own death.

...but that's not what the Bible itself says.

No explicitly no, but that is why critical thinking skills are useful.

In John's story, the Last Supper explicitly takes place before Passover and is therefore not the Seder.

If you are referring to John 18:28 that has already been addressed.

See post 89


JW

You have posted on it but your post is your hypothetical claim that the priests had a second, separate Passover eaten after the Seder. You cite the week long 'bread' feast which also included the Lamb -eaten at the start of the week (14th/13th Nisan). The is nothing to support your claim of a separate and later Temple Passover to be eaten by the priests. That is just a hypothetical assumption on your part (or JW authorities) to explain away the discrepancy. You have to show something better, like Jewish authorities saying there was such a thing, or it remains an excuse without evidence.

...but that's not what the Bible itself says.

No explicitly no, but that is why critical thinking skills are useful.

Sounds more like a need for imaginative creativity to me. Where necessary, the Bible doesn't say what it says, it says what you want it to say.

That's what you can bet on. That doesn't make it untrue of course, but we need more than JW has presented, which is reading far too much into this week long 'bread feast' which was the whole week of Passover.

[Difflugia]

In the Synoptics, Judas betrayed Jesus after the Passover Seder. In John, Judas betrayed Jesus after a meal that wasn't the Passover Seder.

This is circular reasoning, you have yet to refute the evidence that the two events happened on the same evening (ie they were different moments during the same meal).

Once again, you seem not to understand the nature of circular reasoning. John says that it's not the Passover. Instead of being circular, that makes my statement obviously true. Your evidence that the stories share a common source doesn't somehow nullify differences between the sources. Whether or not some sort of textual (or doctrinal?) criticism can unearth the details of an original source, that doesn't change the canonical details as they're written.

...If you want to imagine that John's story took place on the same day as it did in the other Gospels, that's as good a doctrinal position as any ...

Thank you for that admission.

Since you felt the need to replace the most important part of my statement with an ellipsis, I can only assume that you "admit" that my full statement isn't really much of an "admission." At the point that any religious doctrine departs from the nature of the text, despite perhaps being interesting for psychological reasons, it no longer offers any genuine insight into the text as either literature or history. Since "good doctrine" is as tautological as "religious truth," trying to show that any one doctrine is better than another, let alone the one true doctrine, is a fool's errand. For the same reason, however, doctrine is a poor counterfeit of either literary analysis or historical method.

Yes perhaps I wasnt clear - John focuses on different events or actions on the same evening as the other gospels.

John's Gospel says otherwise. Again, you've demonstrated that the stories most likely share a source, but the only justification for ignoring details of the text itself that you've offered is a doctrinal one, that the details from one story must necessarily match those of another. It's like claiming that Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet was set in 1950s New York because that's the setting of West Side Story.

The common elements indicate Jesus bread and wine ceremony happened sometime in the course of the same meal the others report on. In short during the synoptics passover meal, Jesus inaugurated the memorial of his own death.

Which, no doubt, you'll keep saying because it's the only argument you have in the face of the elements that not only aren't common, but are contradictory.

...but that's not what the Bible itself says.

No explicitly no,

"Thank you for that admission."

but that is why critical thinking skills are useful.

Of course. Perhaps there's a Watchtower article that will help me.

In John's story, the Last Supper explicitly takes place before Passover and is therefore not the Seder.

If you are referring to John 18:28 that has already been addressed.

See post 89

That post makes the same faulty argument that you've already made in this one: since Mark said the meal is the Passover Seder, John must mean that also, even if he explicitly wrote otherwise.

In addition to 18:28, 13:1 explicitly puts the setting of the Last Supper (and likely the crucifixion itself) "before the Passover feast." If John's complicated grammar is to be taken at face value, everything from the beginning of the supper to the time that Jesus "would leave this world unto the Father," ultimately effected in John 19:30, is modified by the prepositional phrase "before the Passover feast."

To learn more about circular reasoning and in particular why "obvious" doesn't mean "circular," see this post.

[JehovahsWitness]

. John says that it's not the Passover.

Chapter and verse?

Do you understand that there is a difference between what you deduduce from the text and whatnis said? Je you claim the words "this was not the Passover" is in the gospel of John feel free to produce those exact words. Je not it might be wise to modify how free and easy you are with the words "John says ..."

[JehovahsWitness]

The is nothing to support your claim of a separate and later Temple Passover to be eaten by the priests.

See post #91

[Difflugia]

. John says that it's not the Passover.

Chapter and verse?

Do you understand that there is a difference between what you deduduce from the text and whatnis said? Je you claim the words "this was not the Passover" is in the gospel of John feel free to produce those exact words. Je not it might be wise to modify how free and easy you are with the words "John says ..."

John 13:1, "Now before the Feast of the Passover."

[JehovahsWitness]

. John says that it's not the Passover.

Chapter and verse?

Do you understand that there is a difference between what you deduce from the text and what is actually said? If you claim the words "this was not the Passover" is in the gospel of John feel free to produce those exact words. If not it might be wise to modify how free and easy you are with the words "John says ..."

John 13:1, "Now before the Feast of the Passover."

The words you claim were in the text are in fact not there ...

"It's" (this Word is not in the text)

"not" (this Word is not in the text)

Misqoting is just poor show. Perhaps you should be more careful with the words "John says ..." in future and distinguish between a quote and your deductions.

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

. John says that it's not the Passover.

Chapter and verse?

John 13:1, "Now before the Feast of the Passover."

QUOTING

I also have no problem with partial quotes and ellipses but it is poor show to attempt to use the above to say the exact opposite of clear intent. In John 13:1 the writer sets the scene and makes a parenthetical remark of Jesus state of mind prior to the festival. The full unaltered quote reads as follows

JOHN 13:1

Now because he knew before the festival of the Passover that his hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father, Jesus, having loved his own who were in the world, loved them to the end.

The words "before the passover" are not specific time markers for subsequent events described but an adverbial for what Jesus "knew".

To illustrate: Because she knew before she met her husband she wanted a big family, she came off birth control and they started trying for a baby as soon as they were married. Does this mean the woman started trying for a baby with her husband before she met and married him? Obviously what she knew before was not a time marker for the actions described, only the a comment on her prevailing attitude during the events that follow.

In addition to 18:28, 13:1 explicitly puts the setting of the Last Supper (and likely the crucifixion itself) "before the Passover feast."

If John's complicated grammar is to be taken at face value, everything from the beginning of the supper to the time that Jesus "would leave this world unto the Father," ultimately effected in John 19:30, is modified by the prepositional phrase "before the Passover feast."

See above

[JehovahsWitness]

Yes perhaps I wasnt clear - John focuses on different events or actions on the same evening as the other gospels.

John's Gospel says otherwise.

John says or you believe/deduce what John means although he does not explicitly say it?

• If you really mean "John says ....[I am not focusing on different events or actions on the same evening as the other gospels]" ... I would be very interested in that chapter and verse.

• If by "John's Gospel says otherwise." you mean you have deduced from various verses that is not the case feel free to actually present your a counter argument.

JOHN'S PASSOVER

When was the "day of preparation" ?
viewtopic.php?p=1082233#p1082233

Does John 13:1 not indicate John's "evening meal" was BEFORE the Passover (Sedar) ?
viewtopic.php?p=1083018#p1083018

Was John's "evening meal" the (Sedar) PASSOVER meal of the Synoptics?
viewtopic.php?p=1082886#p1082886

Does JOHN 18:28 indicate at Jesus trial he had not yet eaten the sedar meal ?
viewtopic.php?p=1083033#p1083033

Does Johns employ of metonym mean he could not be referring to 15th Nisan at John 18:28? [eating a festival]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 34#p998834

Were the Passover (sedar) meal and 7 day temple festival REALLY on two different dates?
viewtopic.php?p=1082314#p1082314

Was John being deliberately ambiguious with his time makers?
viewtopic.php?p=998858#p998858

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

THE PASSOVER, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ... SABBATH KEEPING