Easter Traditions?

[Tcg]

Are there any Easter Traditions that are related specifically to Jesus' resurrection? The Easter eggs hunts, bunnies and pastel-colored candies seem to be a celebration of spring. Certainly, sermons will be preached on Jesus' resurrection, but are there any Easter Traditions that Christians practice with their families that are focused on Jesus?


Tcg

[TRANSPONDER]

You are messing me about . Mark 14.12 On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus’ disciples asked him, “Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?”

Yes, " the first day" here refers to the Passover season whichnstarted with the Family based home (Sedar) meal and continued on to'the TEMPLE BASED festival of unleaven bread. For further details see my post : When was "the first day of the Passover festival"?
viewtopic.php?p=1082286#p1082286

..You know that Jesus and his disciples eat the Passover before the arrest and trial which is when the priests are staying ritually pure to as to eat the Passover. Which you claim is a Temple passover held later than the 'Family' Passover meal. Can you substantiate this claim of yours?

I already did ... Were the Passover (sedar) meal and 7 day temple festival REALLY on two different dates?
viewtopic.php?p=1082314#p1082314

. I have posted extracts from the Jewish Encylopaedia which don't appear to mention any such thing. Can you substantiate this claim of yours?

Source The Jewish Encylopedia

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

THE PASSOVER, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ... SABBATH KEEPING

What I did not find was any suggestion that there was a family Passover meal on the 14th.[...] and 'Temple' Passover meal eaten a day or so later. .

See above

See above, indeed. I used my critical thinking 'skills' to show that you were extracting an imaginary later feast and I was asking you to show more backup than your imaginative interpretation of a week long bread-eating festival.

Nobody denies that John's last supper is represented as the same event as the Synoptic last supper. The point here seems to be that In Matthew Jesus obliquely identifies Judas as the betrayer. Mark and Luke don't. But John has Jesus identify Judas and even tells him to go and do what he has to do, with the silly idea that the disciples thought he was telling Judas to go and buy food.

Well thatnmight be your point, but *my* point was that Jesus instigated his own memorial (using bread and wine) during the Jewish (sedar) meal, and thus John does report Jesus (albeit Indirectly) as celebrating the same Passover as the synoptics.




JW

Your first point here is irrelevant, the second i showed was contradicted by John who shows that that eucharistic -type meal (which I agree) was not the passover feast - unless you can show there was a later 'Temple' feast somewhere other than in your inventive imagination.

[TRANSPONDER]

. John says that it's not the Passover.

Chapter and verse?

Do you understand that there is a difference between what you deduduce from the text and whatnis said? Je you claim the words "this was not the Passover" is in the gospel of John feel free to produce those exact words. Je not it might be wise to modify how free and easy you are with the words "John says ..."

Chapter and verse already given by me, explained at least once and (as I pointed out) understood by you

The is nothing to support your claim of a separate and later Temple Passover to be eaten by the priests.

See post #91

Already debunked. You will do your argument no good by referring to your own previous answers which have been shown insufficient.

Yes perhaps I wasnt clear - John focuses on different events or actions on the same evening as the other gospels.

John's Gospel says otherwise.

John says or you believe/deduce what John means although he does not explicitly say it?

• If you really mean "John says ....[I am not focusing on different events or actions on the same evening as the other gospels]" ... I would be very interested in that chapter and verse.

• If by "John's Gospel says otherwise." you mean you have deduced from various verses that is not the case feel free to actually present your a counter argument.

JOHN'S ACCOUNT

Was John's "evening meal" the (Sedar) PASSOVER meal of the Synoptics?
viewtopic.php?p=1082886#p1082886

Does JOHN 18:28 indicate at Jesus trial he had not yet eaten the sedar meal ?
viewtopic.php?p=1082304#p1082304

Does Johns employ of metonym mean he could not be referring to 15th Nisan at John 18:28? [eating a festival]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 34#p998834

Were the Passover (sedar) meal and 7 day temple festival REALLY on two different dates?
viewtopic.php?p=1082314#p1082314

When was "John's day of preparation" ?
viewtopic.php?p=1082233#p1082233

Was John being deliberately ambiguious with his time makers?
viewtopic.php?p=998858#p998858

John says what you try to deny by inventing a later Passover that is supposed to be eaten which exists only in your imagination as, if you could show that such a thing could be shown to have existed, you would have done so by now. You have no business pointing the accusing finger at anyone else.

[JehovahsWitness]

... eucharistic -type meal (which I agree) was not the passover feast -

DID JESUS INAUGORATE THIS OWN MEMORIAL(USING BREAD AND WINE) DURING AN OBERVATION OF THE JEWISH SEDAR MEAL ON NISAN 14?

Yes all indications are that he did.



MATTEW reports Jesus saying he intended to {quote} "celebrate the Passover with my disciples" and says while the were eating what we can reasonably assume to be that named meal he . ..

• Identified the betrayer

• used bread to commemorate his own death (See verses 19, 20)

• warned Peter of his imminent denial (31-34)

• left for the location were he was eventually arrested

MARK who identified the day as "the first day of unfermented cakes" depicts his disciples as for Christ to {quote} "eat the Passover with my disciples" and de can reasonably presume that same evening (14:17) ...

• Identified the betrayer

• used bread to commemorate his own death (See verses 19, 20)

• warned Peter of his imminent denial (31-34)

• arrived at the location were he was eventually arrested

LUKE, who identified the day as "the day of unfermented cakes" (22:7) records Jesus as saying {quote} " I have greatly desired to eat this Passover with you ..." On the same occassion he ...

• Identified the betrayer

• used bread to commemorate his own death (See verses 19, 20)

• warned Peter of his imminent denial (31-34)

• left for the location were he was eventually arrested

JOHN skips most of the preliminaries but speaks of "an evening meal" where Jesus

• Identified the betrayer

• warned Peter of his imminent denial (31-34)

• left for the location were he was eventually arrested

CONCLUSION The common elements found in all the gospels are more than enough to indicate they are all narrating events that took place on the same eveningnamely Nisan 14

JESUS LAST PASSOVER

What day did Jesus send his disciples out to prepare for the Passover evening meal (sedar)?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 02#p999402

Could Luke 22:7 be read to mean the disciples prepared for the Passover meal on the 13th Nisan?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 73#p999573

Would Jesus disciples disciples have slaughtered the Passover lamb before evening?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 28#p999328

Did Jesus inaugorate his own memorial (with bread and wine) during the occassion of a Passover (sedar) meal?
viewtopic.php?p=1082977#p1082977

When (at what moment during the evening) did Jesus pass the bread and the wine?
viewtopic.php?p=1043181#p1043181

[JehovahsWitness]

John says what you try to deny by inventing a later Passover that is supposed to be eaten which exists only in your imagination as, if you could show that such a thing could be shown to have existed, you would have done so by now.

Its not a "later Passover" its just that "the Passover" consisted of two seperate and distictly different holy days : See post #91

Already debunked. You will do your argument no good by referring to your own previous answers which have been shown insufficient.

You will do your argument no good by repeatedly requesting information that has already been provided or referring to a "debunking" that cannot be shown to have taken place.





JOHN'S PASSOVER

When was the "day of preparation" ?
viewtopic.php?p=1082233#p1082233

Does John 13:1 not indicate John's "evening meal" was BEFORE the Passover (Sedar) ?
viewtopic.php?p=1083018#p1083018

Was John's "evening meal" the (Sedar) PASSOVER meal of the Synoptics?
viewtopic.php?p=1082886#p1082886

Does JOHN 18:28 indicate at Jesus trial he had not yet eaten the sedar meal ?
viewtopic.php?p=1083033#p1083033

Does Johns employ of metonym mean he could not be referring to 15th Nisan at John 18:28? [eating a festival]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 34#p998834

Were the Passover (sedar) meal and 7 day temple festival REALLY on two different dates?
viewtopic.php?p=1082314#p1082314

Was John being deliberately ambiguious with his time makers?
viewtopic.php?p=998858#p998858

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

THE PASSOVER, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ... SABBATH KEEPING

[Difflugia]

The words you claim were in the text are in fact not there ...

"It's" (this Word is not in the text)

"not" (this Word is not in the text)

Misqoting is just poor show. Perhaps you should be more careful with the words "John says ..." in future and distinguish between a quote and your deductions.

What kind of weird hairs are you trying to split? John says that the Last Supper took place before the Passover. I'd think those critical thinking skills you're so proud of would help you realize that before the Passover feast and during the Passover feast are two different time frames.

John says or you believe/deduce what John means although he does not explicitly say it?

John says. John 13:1-4 is a complex series of statements, but the grammar of it applies at least through verse 4 and part of the meal. I deduce that the statement in verse 1 that Jesus "would leave out of the world unto the Father" is marked by "It is finished!" in 19:30, but that's not necessary to the Last Supper being before the Passover.

13:1 is usually treated as a single sentence with a prepositional phrase and the main clause separated by two subordinate clauses:

• Now before the Passover feast,
  • Jesus had known [perfect tense] that his hour came [aorist] that he would leave [aorist] this world unto the Father,
  • he loved [aorist] the ones in the world
• he loved [aorist] them to the end.

Following this, the next statement begins with, "and supper happening." Unless John is being sloppy with his Greek here and only here, the language is still being modified by the prepositional phrase. In fact, this is the beginning of a single, extended narrative sequence of events that begins in 13:1 and goes through the end of the crucifixion narrative at the end of chapter 19. The next even ambiguous gap in the sequence doesn't occur until 19:38 when Joseph of Arimathea asks Pilate for the body "after these things." The next unambiguous gap is 20:1, "now on the first day of the week." The Passover meal was eaten after Jesus died, before the first day of the week.

• If you really mean "John says ....[I am not focusing on different events or actions on the same evening as the other gospels]" ... I would be very interested in that chapter and verse.

Neither am I. John 13:1.

[TRANSPONDER]

... eucharistic -type meal (which I agree) was not the passover feast -

DID JESUS INAUGORATE THIS OWN MEMORIAL(USING BREAD AND WINE) DURING AN OBERVATION OF THE JEWISH SEDAR MEAL ON NISAN 14?

Yes all indications are that he did.



MATTEW reports Jesus saying he intended to {quote} "celebrate the Passover with my disciples" and says while the were eating what we can reasonably assume to be that named meal he . ..

• Identified the betrayer

• used bread to commemorate his own death (See verses 19, 20)

• warned Peter of his imminent denial (31-34)

• left for the location were he was eventually arrested

MARK who identified the day as "the first day of unfermented cakes" depicts his disciples as for Christ to {quote} "eat the Passover with my disciples" and de can reasonably presume that same evening (14:17) ...

• Identified the betrayer

• used bread to commemorate his own death (See verses 19, 20)

• warned Peter of his imminent denial (31-34)

• arrived at the location were he was eventually arrested

LUKE, who identified the day as "the day of unfermented cakes" (22:7) records Jesus as saying {quote} " I have greatly desired to eat this Passover with you ..." On the same occassion he ...

• Identified the betrayer

• used bread to commemorate his own death (See verses 19, 20)

• warned Peter of his imminent denial (31-34)

• left for the location were he was eventually arrested

JOHN skips most of the preliminaries but speaks of "an evening meal" where Jesus

• Identified the betrayer

• warned Peter of his imminent denial (31-34)

• left for the location were he was eventually arrested

CONCLUSION The common elements found in all the gospels are more than enough to indicate they are all narrating events that took place on the same eveningnamely Nisan 14

JESUS LAST PASSOVER

What day did Jesus send his disciples out to prepare for the Passover evening meal (sedar)?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 02#p999402

Could Luke 22:7 be read to mean the disciples prepared for the Passover meal on the 13th Nisan?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 73#p999573

Would Jesus disciples disciples have slaughtered the Passover lamb before evening?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 28#p999328

Did Jesus inaugorate his own memorial (with bread and wine) during the occassion of a Passover (sedar) meal?
viewtopic.php?p=1082977#p1082977

When (at what moment during the evening) did Jesus pass the bread and the wine?
viewtopic.php?p=1043181#p1043181

Ok. This does seem to be a retrospective (so I would argue) foreshadowing of the eucharist slapped onto the Last supper. And yet, wouldn't you agree, John's version is not at all Eucharistic. There is no mention of bread and wine, though there is mention of the betrayer eating his bread. Would you not consider that John 6.53 is much more recognisably Eucharistic?

John says what you try to deny by inventing a later Passover that is supposed to be eaten which exists only in your imagination as, if you could show that such a thing could be shown to have existed, you would have done so by now.

Its not a "later Passover" its just that "the Passover" consisted of two seperate and distictly different holy days : See post #91

Already debunked. You will do your argument no good by referring to your own previous answers which have been shown insufficient.

You will do your argument no good by repeatedly requesting information that has already been provided or referring to a "debunking" that cannot be shown to have taken place.

No. You have claimed the existence of a 'Temple Passover' feast to be eaten a day or so later than the 'Family' Seder, which the synoptics place at the Last supper. You have failed to show that there was any such 'Temple' Passover to be eaten other than to try to make the entire Passover week (bread festival) a Temple' Passover that the priests had yet to eat. You may convince yourself that this is enough to explain away the contradiction, but it is nothing like good enough to explain it away for anyone else not already committed to believe the bible, no matter what the contradictions.

There's another aspect of the Priests hanging about the crucifixion (in all four gospels) which could only be credible if they no longer needed to worry about ritual purity.

[JehovahsWitness]

The words you claim were in the text are in fact not there ...

"It's" (this Word is not in the text)

"not" (this Word is not in the text)

Misqoting is just poor show. Perhaps you should be more careful with the words "John says ..." in future and distinguish between a quote and your deductions.

...John says that the Last Supper took place before the Passover.

He does not say that. Its very simple, you may prove otherwise by producing the chapter and verse where it says "the Last Supper took place before the Passover" .

[TRANSPONDER]

The words you claim were in the text are in fact not there ...

"It's" (this Word is not in the text)

"not" (this Word is not in the text)

Misqoting is just poor show. Perhaps you should be more careful with the words "John says ..." in future and distinguish between a quote and your deductions.

What kind of weird hairs are you trying to split? John says that the Last Supper took place before the Passover.

Hé says nothing of the kind.

Yes he does. Clearly. You are the one claiming that he is not referring to the Passover Seder that everyone else talks about, but some later second Passover to be eaten that nobody else has ever heard of (the 'bread' feast being the entire Passover week). You are the one denying that John is actually saying what he appears to be saying. You are the one making a claim that you have consistently failed to substantiate other than with your twisted Interpretation of the week long 'bread feast' You are the only one in the right line, the only one that really understands what the Bible means as distinct from what it says, and the only one who seems to think that 'critical thinking' means circular arguments.

[JehovahsWitness]

JOHN 13:1

Now because he knew before the festival of the Passover that his hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father, Jesus, having loved his own who were in the world, loved them to the end.

The words "before the passover" are not specific time markers for subsequent events described but an adverbial for what Jesus "knew".

To illustrate: Because she knew before she met her husband she wanted a big family, she came off birth control and they started trying for a baby as soon as they were married. Does this mean the woman started trying for a baby with her husband before she met and married him? Obviously what she knew before was not a time marker for the actions described, only the a comment on her prevailing attitude during the events that follow.

Unless John is being sloppy with his Greek here and only here, the language is still being modified by the prepositional phrase.

Yes because Jesus while eating the meal (whatever that was) continued to know what he knew before.

[JehovahsWitness]

... eucharistic -type meal (which I agree) was not the passover feast -

DID JESUS INAUGORATE THIS OWN MEMORIAL(USING BREAD AND WINE) DURING AN OBERVATION OF THE JEWISH SEDAR MEAL ON NISAN 14?

Yes all indications are that he did.



MATTEW reports Jesus saying he intended to {quote} "celebrate the Passover with my disciples" and says while the were eating what we can reasonably assume to be that named meal he . ..

• Identified the betrayer

• used bread to commemorate his own death (See verses 19, 20)

• warned Peter of his imminent denial (31-34)

• left for the location were he was eventually arrested

MARK who identified the day as "the first day of unfermented cakes" depicts his disciples as for Christ to {quote} "eat the Passover with my disciples" and de can reasonably presume that same evening (14:17) ...

• Identified the betrayer

• used bread to commemorate his own death (See verses 19, 20)

• warned Peter of his imminent denial (31-34)

• arrived at the location were he was eventually arrested

LUKE, who identified the day as "the day of unfermented cakes" (22:7) records Jesus as saying {quote} " I have greatly desired to eat this Passover with you ..." On the same occassion he ...

• Identified the betrayer

• used bread to commemorate his own death (See verses 19, 20)

• warned Peter of his imminent denial (31-34)

• left for the location were he was eventually arrested

JOHN skips most of the preliminaries but speaks of "an evening meal" where Jesus

• Identified the betrayer

• warned Peter of his imminent denial (31-34)

• left for the location were he was eventually arrested

CONCLUSION The common elements found in all the gospels are more than enough to indicate they are all narrating events that took place on the same eveningnamely Nisan 14

... There is no mention of bread and wine, though there is mention of the betrayer eating his bread. Would you not consider that John 6.53 is much more recognisably Eucharistic?

Yes that is true; but there are enough indicators that John chapters 13-17 to deduce that John is speaking about the same night. The night established by the OTHER writers to be the Passover SEDAR meal. Ergo, we can deduce (even according to the gospel of John) that Jesus did eat the Sedar (Passover) meal before his arrest.

Would you not consider that John 6.53 is much more recognisably Eucharistic?

Well if John CHAPTER 6 mentions ...

• Identified the betrayer

• warned Peter of his imminent denial (31-34)

• left for the location were he was eventually arrested

.... then we maybe would have a tie. Does It?!



NOTE : I am unconcerned with the doctrinal significacebof the bread, only with whether in the absence of any mention of it we can STILL place John's "evening meal" on Nisan 14.




JW