Is Prayer Measurable?

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Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #1

Post by POI »

Seems as though Christians make countless claims, that God answers prayer(s). Well, does He? If so, when exactly? Are these 'answered prayers' measurable in any tangible and/or objective kind of way? Please do not answer yet... Below, I will place forth an example....

On earth, we have many who are amputees, and/or have downs syndrome, and/or have cerebral palsy. I would imagine countless prayer requests have also been made on their behalf? If so, has God ever answered? Has God ever answered the call to reverse/remove such unwanted afflictions? If so, care to share?

To me, seems as though God ignores the call to such prayer requests, (to remove such conditions). Would you Christians agree?
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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #31

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:57 am
POI wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:55 am ... If not, then all such requests are being ignored by "God", at best...
Or the answer is no, or I just don't have enough verifiable evidence.
If the answer is "no", for any and all requests to address amputees, downs syndrome, and cerebral palsy, this has already been addressed in posts #2, #3, and #4. Feel free to respond to post #5, as a follow-up.

If the answer is "I just don't have enough verifiable evidence", then this would mean that the countless people, who currently have missing limbs, and/or have downs syndrome, and/or have cerebral palsy is/are not a large enough sample size to assess???
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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #32

Post by POI »

This seems about the time to first define what 'prayer' is and is not... Looks to be very little Christian interaction in this thread; and I can only wonder why?

Notable passed responses from Christians, prior to producing this thread:

- "God is not a slot machine"
- "God answers according to His will, not ours"
- "God's answer is yes, no, or later"
- "Maybe the person is not praying right"
- "Jesus healed many physical conditions, in the Bible"

Does God ever answer the call to 'prayer', in helping/healing/reversing any type of human physical conditions? Assuming the answer is yes, we can proceed forward below the dotted line...

If the answer is no, this would mean that each and every Christian, who have ever claimed God answers their 'prayers' in aiding/helping/fixing an unwanted physical human condition, was/is applying a mistaken assessment. For which I would then follow up by first pointing out the various 'prayer' Verses given in post #22, such as Matthew 7:7, Matthew 21:22, Mark 11:24, John 14:13-14, and John 16:23... For which I would assume the Christian might be quick to point out I'm reading these Verses out of context?

******************************

In modern and measurable times, why does God skip any/all requests to reverse/undo missing limb(s), downs syndrome, and cerebral palsy?

(Hint) Is it most logical to apply Occam's Razor, and just assume there exists no such God? Or, do we instead apply (ad hoc /post hoc) explanation(s) galore?
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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #33

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Answer: What is logical is irrelevant. "God's Logic" applies. Which is Faithbased (of course). And that means that one relies on the Faith -claims and dismisses any arguments objections or even hard evidence (Science doesn't know everything) and so the Faith -claim remains. Occam's razor is irrelevant (unless it can be used to support the faith claim (1). The probability or Best Explanation is irrelevant. And I know it works like that because the more logical, simpler and even evidence -based explanation is dismissed in favour of 'Is it possible it happened like the Bible says?' and that is enough to leave the Faith -claim as the (supposed) default hypothesis. And that only works with Faith in that particular hypothesis.

I haven't even got onto the fingers in ears denialist mantra - recital. Like the denial of Slavery in the Bible (Excusing it as God regretfully having to go along with it is a different argument) but swearing that it's "Indentured Servitude" isn't an argument at all. It is a mantra shouted out to drown out the explanation that it is ownership of Foreign slaves even if it is "Indentured Servitude" for Hebrew slaves. I know that they do not want to listen. At need they revert to a 'Ghost Bible' which is an imaginary one that says whatever they want and they ignore the one that actually says something else.

I could even get onto evasion and misdirection but this was supposed to be about prayer, so I'll leave it there. O:) have a great weekend, all.

(1) haven't we seen it misused to argue Cosmic Origins and origins of Life? "If science can't explain it, it has to be God". And setting aside which god (there is only One) even a hypothesis for Abiogenesis is dismissed out of hand (I have heard "You can't prove that it happened like that") and the Faithclaim remains. Anything else is Impossible so God is the only answer. That isn't anything like even Bad logic, so Logic is actually irrelevant.

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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #34

Post by POI »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:48 pm Answer: What is logical is irrelevant. "God's Logic" applies. Which is Faithbased (of course).
Rhetorical question for you (maybe)... Why apply 'faith' to this god, and not any other claimed god(s)?
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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #35

Post by brunumb »

POI wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:45 am Does God ever answer the call to 'prayer', in helping/healing/reversing any type of human physical conditions? Assuming the answer is yes, we can proceed forward below the dotted line...
The problem with yes is that we have no way of demonstrating that God was involved in any of those circumstances. The arrow in the barn wall comes to mind where one paints the target around it afterward. With all the excuses given for why God doesn't answer particular prayers and the uncertainty around the alleged times when he allegedly does answer them, the whole notion of praying for intercession from God becomes totally pointless. OK, maybe it makes those engaged in the practice feel better in some way, but that's about all.
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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #36

Post by POI »

brunumb wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:50 pm The problem with yes is that we have no way of demonstrating that God was involved in any of those circumstances.
Right. Being that this is addressed to Christians, I'm attempting to grant tons of leeway here; for argument's sake :)
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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #37

Post by POI »

From post #32:

In modern and measurable times, why does God skip any/all requests to reverse/undo missing limb(s), downs syndrome, and cerebral palsy?

***********************

Virtually no Christians wished to advise in this thread. Maybe a differing audience is now viewing, and would like to explain....
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #38

Post by TRANSPONDER »

POI wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:00 pm
TRANSPONDER wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:48 pm Answer: What is logical is irrelevant. "God's Logic" applies. Which is Faithbased (of course).
Rhetorical question for you (maybe)... Why apply 'faith' to this god, and not any other claimed god(s)?
Well, of course; the excuses applied to the Christian religion also equally validates the others. In fact as all the apologetics fail to validate Christianity over any other religion (using their excuses) it comes down in the end - as I have always said - to crediting the Bible as a trustworthy record of events, which would put Christianity in a good position relative to other creeds, with perhaps only Islam as a serious challenge and Buddhism as a third place with no return on your bet.

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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #39

Post by POI »

From post #32:

In modern and measurable times, why does God skip any/all requests to reverse/undo missing limb(s), downs syndrome, and cerebral palsy?

***********************

Virtually no Christians wished to advise in this thread. Maybe a differing audience is now viewing, and would like to explain....
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #40

Post by POI »

Bumping.....

From post #32:

In modern and measurable times, why does God skip any/all requests to reverse/undo missing limb(s), downs syndrome, and cerebral palsy?

***********************

Virtually no Christians wished to advise in this thread. Maybe a differing audience is now viewing, and would like to explain....
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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