Is Prayer Measurable?

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Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #1

Post by POI »

Seems as though Christians make countless claims, that God answers prayer(s). Well, does He? If so, when exactly? Are these 'answered prayers' measurable in any tangible and/or objective kind of way? Please do not answer yet... Below, I will place forth an example....

On earth, we have many who are amputees, and/or have downs syndrome, and/or have cerebral palsy. I would imagine countless prayer requests have also been made on their behalf? If so, has God ever answered? Has God ever answered the call to reverse/remove such unwanted afflictions? If so, care to share?

To me, seems as though God ignores the call to such prayer requests, (to remove such conditions). Would you Christians agree?
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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #21

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TRANSPONDER wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:00 am Would atheists accept that as convincing evidence or find excuses to reject it (there must be some Natural explanation').
This was the reason I brought up amputees, downs syndrome, and cerebral palsy, to say the least. No amount of 'faith healing', in any capacity really thus far, is regenerating limbs, or ultimately removing someone's down syndrome or cerebral palsy. This looks to be objectively the case. Hence, this seems to suggest that either people are praying to themselves, because there is no God listening at all, or, God is perpetually ignoring all these specific requests? If someone has more option(s) for consideration, please do tell?
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"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #22

Post by POI »

Goat wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:20 pm
POI wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:25 pm
Has a Bishop ever claimed to have "saved and 'raised up' the sick"? If so, are they also capable of asking God to restore one's limb(s), reversing downs syndrome, and and/or reversing cerebral palsy?

The Bible has many other verses about prayer: i.e. (Matthew 7:7), (Matthew 21:22), (Mark 11:24), (John 14:13-14), (John 16:23)
There is the claim that prayers 'saved' and 'raised up' the sick. Can it be shown that it actually did?
There would seem to be no way to demonstrably 'prove' one time claims from thousands of years ago. I'm concerned about the prayer that millions or more claim to be answered today.

You did not answer my question(s)?

Are (Bishops/other) also capable of asking God to restore one's limb(s), reversing downs syndrome, and and/or reversing cerebral palsy?

The Bible has many other verses about prayer: i.e. (Matthew 7:7), (Matthew 21:22), (Mark 11:24), (John 14:13-14), (John 16:23)
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #23

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1213 wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:00 am
POI wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:30 pm Does God ever answer prayer requests --- (yes or no)?
I believe so.
Why do you believe so?
1213 wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:00 am
POI wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:30 pmIf yes, why does he perpetually skip requests for amputees, downs, and cerebral palsy?
How do you know He does that?
Because everyone that is born without limbs, downs syndrome, and cerebral palsy, also die with these conditions. I would imagine petitionary and/or intercessory prayer requests have been made to address these affliction(s). So I ask anew...

Pardon the seemingly false dichotomy... If you have an option C) or more, please provide:

A) Does God ignore these specific prayer requests?
B) Are people merely praying to themselves, and there is no such God listening?

Please explain your answer...
1213 wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:00 am
POI wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:30 pmIf no, then why pray at all?
For me praying is a way to say thanks, or that I am sorry, if I have done something wrong.
Does this mean God ignores all petitionary and/or intercessory prayer requests for healing/restoring/reversing unwanted physical affliction(s), such as missing limbs, downs, and cerebral palsy?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #24

Post by Goat »

POI wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:45 pm
Goat wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:20 pm
POI wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:25 pm
Has a Bishop ever claimed to have "saved and 'raised up' the sick"? If so, are they also capable of asking God to restore one's limb(s), reversing downs syndrome, and and/or reversing cerebral palsy?

The Bible has many other verses about prayer: i.e. (Matthew 7:7), (Matthew 21:22), (Mark 11:24), (John 14:13-14), (John 16:23)
There is the claim that prayers 'saved' and 'raised up' the sick. Can it be shown that it actually did?
There would seem to be no way to demonstrably 'prove' one time claims from thousands of years ago. I'm concerned about the prayer that millions or more claim to be answered today.

You did not answer my question(s)?

Are (Bishops/other) also capable of asking God to restore one's limb(s), reversing downs syndrome, and and/or reversing cerebral palsy?

The Bible has many other verses about prayer: i.e. (Matthew 7:7), (Matthew 21:22), (Mark 11:24), (John 14:13-14), (John 16:23)
Well, they did do studies on it. There was an iniital study that seemed to have shown that people had better results when people prayed for their recovery from heart surgery, but it was flawed due to it's small sample size. When the exact same group repeated that study with a larger number of cases, there was no discernible difference between the people who were prayed for, and the people that weren't.

So, when it comes to that, so far, there is no evidence prayer works.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #25

Post by TRANSPONDER »

POI wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:41 pm
TRANSPONDER wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:00 am Would atheists accept that as convincing evidence or find excuses to reject it (there must be some Natural explanation').
This was the reason I brought up amputees, downs syndrome, and cerebral palsy, to say the least. No amount of 'faith healing', in any capacity really thus far, is regenerating limbs, or ultimately removing someone's down syndrome or cerebral palsy. This looks to be objectively the case. Hence, this seems to suggest that either people are praying to themselves, because there is no God listening at all, or, God is perpetually ignoring all these specific requests? If someone has more option(s) for consideration, please do tell?
Yes. It is blindingly obvious that major miracles do not happen and Christians know they don't. They may pray in a medical situation and whether the recovery is due to medical work or inexplicable, God gets the credit.

Already we saw the tacit acceptance that prayer doesn't actually do anything because it is done for the warm fuzzies of the person doing it, not for any practical result. I recall a thread here arguing that the prayer -method of getting warm fuzzies was justification enough. I have my doubts that delusions of being special, entitled, forgiven or saved is a good or healthy thing. I prefer to accept that I am a very ordinary bod and anything I accomplish is my own efforts, not because God has patted me on the head and told me I'm special. Which would be of course (in my view) patting the self on the head and telling themselves they are special.

Bottom line of course :D hard truths (I am not special) is better than comfortable lies.

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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #26

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POI wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:55 pm Why do you believe so?
For example because of the Bible. And I believe what the Bible tells, because I don't think we would have it, if it would not be true.
POI wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:55 pmBecause everyone that is born without limbs, downs syndrome, and cerebral palsy, also die with these conditions.


I don't think we have enough information to say it has never happened.
POI wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:55 pmDoes this mean God ignores all petitionary and/or intercessory prayer requests for healing/restoring/reversing unwanted physical affliction(s), such as missing limbs, downs, and cerebral palsy?
I don't think so.

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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #27

Post by 1213 »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:34 am ...Except the stick and carrot of heaven and hell ...
I don't think heaven and hell can be seen as stick and carrot, because heaven is not earned, one can do nothing to earn it.

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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #28

Post by TRANSPONDER »

You can, according to the Gospels, otherwise Jesus' teachings are pointless (other than in terms of humanism). There's no guarantee that following these teachings will save one doing it, but the intention, surely is to give the believer a better chance. If not, what's the point of the religion at all?

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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #29

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:02 am
POI wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:55 pm Why do you believe so?
For example because of the Bible. And I believe what the Bible tells, because I don't think we would have it, if it would not be true.
This response appears quite circular.
1213 wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:02 am
POI wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:55 pmBecause everyone that is born without limbs, downs syndrome, and cerebral palsy, also die with these conditions.


I don't think we have enough information to say it has never happened.
You skipped my question. I'll repeat below...

Your given response seems to admit you are aware that God ain't addressing any current requests to address amputees, downs syndrome, or cerebral palsy. Your response also suggests that, at best, maybe God has cured such requests (way-back-when), but does nothing about them now.

Pardon the seemingly false dichotomy... If you have an option C) or more, please provide:

A) Does God ignore these specific prayer requests nowadays?
B) Are people merely praying to themselves, and there is no such God listening?

Please explain your answer...
1213 wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:02 am
POI wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:55 pmDoes this mean God ignores all petitionary and/or intercessory prayer requests for healing/restoring/reversing unwanted physical affliction(s), such as missing limbs, downs, and cerebral palsy?
I don't think so.
So you have current documented verifiable example(s) of limbs being restored, down syndrome disappearing, or cerebral palsy going away after prayer? If not, then all such requests are being ignored by "God", at best...
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Is Prayer Measurable?

Post #30

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:55 am ... If not, then all such requests are being ignored by "God", at best...
Or the answer is no, or I just don't have enough verifiable evidence.

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