End of a marriage death?

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End of a marriage death?

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

In another thread, a poster*, in a conversation, a poster said the below:
"Since marriage is biblically only terminated by death..."

This made me wonder 'why'. If death (the end of the earthly body) is terminated when said body dies, but the soul lives on, why does death have to be the end, especially if the marriage is 'preformed' within a religious ceremony?

For discussion:
Seems to me, if a 'christian' marries a couple, and 'blesses' the marriage, and their souls never die, why does the godly blessed marriage not continue on forever in eternity?


*Thanks to JehovahsWitness for the inspiration of this question.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: End of a marriage death?

Post #31

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
brunumb wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:18 pm
tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:41 pm God and His Son come first.
Unlike our fellow human beings God and His Son can look after themselves. When God and His Son actually start looking after humanity, then they can reasonably expect to come first, whatever that even means. How does one quantify love that we should love God and His Son more than anyone else?
By serving them, obeying them, putting their will first. Just as Christ did for His Father. Even over our own will.

The one who has my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love them and reveal myself to them.

It is out of love.

Those commandments are also from love.


It goes a little farther than just one's physical birth mother as well. It applies also to things that people call their mother. Such as a religion. Such as the RCC (calling the church their mother). One must love Christ MORE than mother, father, sister, daughter... hence one will obey HIS commands, keep HIS word. If He says 'love your enemies' and a religion (or another person) says 'curse your enemies', well... who do you love that you will obey? If a person loves their 'mother' more, then that person will keep their 'mother's' commands and remain in her word and serve 'her', even over and above Christ (and His Father). It applies to people as well of course. If your father tells you to curse your enemies, but Christ says to bless them, well... who do you love the most? Or if you want to get revenge on someone who has done you wrong... but Christ says to forgive... well, whose will are you going to put first?



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Re: End of a marriage death?

Post #32

Post by POI »

tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:12 pm Peace to you,
POI wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:48 pm
tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:13 pm marriage also helps us to understand the relationship between Christ and His Bride; it is a covenant, a contract, a union - someone to be one with.
This response makes no sense. Many will never get married. Some may never even have the option to be married, due to dying young, being deformed, born with brain trauma, etc.... Does this mean that the ones, which never got married, cannot have a true relationship with their Master in Heaven? I think not ;) So please try again....
You are reading more into what I said than what I actually said.
No. Actually, I am not. Many will not ever have the opportunity to experience a 'covenant' prior to natural death. Hence, your given point really has absolutely no relevance. UNLESS you wish to argue that dead infants cannot be devoted to God in heaven? I would assume you would not support that argument. Hence, your given point, is not really any <point> at all.
tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:12 pm
Why instruct humans to marry each other here on earth, and also prioritize their core family above all other humans, if this will not happen in Heaven?
I responded more on this question in the previous posts already, but... actually... it will happen in heaven, as the Household of God (and again though, Christ spoke this from when he was here in the flesh about other humans: here are my mother and brother, everyone who does the will of my Father in heaven is my mother and brother...).
You continue to miss my observation. The Bible tells readers to place higher devotion/priority to your earthly married family, verses humans outside the married family, here on earth. This all goes away in Heaven apparently. You no longer have any priority human married family; only God. The standard has changed. Why?
tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:12 pm
tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:13 pm Plus many people want to have a spouse, a partner, someone to share their life with, have children with. (nothing wrong if you don't want that, either, but many people do)
I don't think God cares much about what humans want; unless such humans want what God also wants ;) Please try again.
No need to try again when you are just telling us what you think God cares about, without supporting that statement at all.
Um, wait a minute.... You mean to tell me if your wants do not align with God's wants, God is okay with that???? So I do not have to follow what is instructed in the Bible if I do not want to, and God will not punish me?
tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:12 pm If God did not care what anyone wants (especially His own people), then why would He ever have bothered to answer prayers?
When you speak about prayers, are you merely speaking about ancient 'answered prayers', or current ones too? If it's the later, please respond to this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=8&p=1075482#p1075482
tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:12 pm
tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:13 pm You can be married and still devote yourself to God.
Again, why be married to another human, and prioritize their needs, if this will not happen in Heaven? Why is <the standard> different while on earth vs. Heaven?
You will be prioritizing the one you are married to in heaven (and on earth): the Master.
But the standard changed. Meaning, when you ascend to heaven, you no longer place higher priority on your once former human spouse, versus any other human(s). Why?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: End of a marriage death?

Post #33

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
POI wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:52 pm
tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:12 pm
Why instruct humans to marry each other here on earth, and also prioritize their core family above all other humans, if this will not happen in Heaven?
I responded more on this question in the previous posts already, but... actually... it will happen in heaven, as the Household of God (and again though, Christ spoke this from when he was here in the flesh about other humans: here are my mother and brother, everyone who does the will of my Father in heaven is my mother and brother...).
You continue to miss my observation. The Bible tells readers to place higher devotion/priority to your earthly married family, verses humans outside the married family, here on earth.
These are the verses you supplied to support your claim on what "the bible says" to do:

1 Timothy 5:8 ---> But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

This is simply telling people that they are supposed to be providing for their households. These are people you brought into the world, people you are firsthand responsible for, so YEAH, you can't get away with not providing for them. That is one of the most basic things you should do.


1 Timothy 5:4 --> but if any widow has children or grandchildren, they must first learn to practice piety in regard to their own family and to make some return to their parents; for this is acceptable in the sight of God.

Same as above. And it is only right that you care for those who cared for you, honoring your mother and father (or grandmother and grandfather) as you are also responsible for them. Just as Christ saw to his mother's care before he died.


And God provides some things for all, but more things for His own household, for people He is in a covenant with (which is what a marriage is: a covenant, a contract, something in which both parties make vows, and promises, and have obligations). You did not enter into that covenant/contract with the entire world. Though there is still the outstanding debt that we owe one another, our fellow man: and that is love.
This all goes away in Heaven apparently.


Well some of the issues go away (no widows going hungry, no orphans, etc.), but in fact you did provide for your household if you are in Christ, because God saves also those we love (as per previous examples). It is not as though you would be abandoning your children and loved ones, you would have eternal life, you and your loved ones. So what is the issue? Because I think you are making an issue out of nothing.

tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:12 pm
tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:13 pm Plus many people want to have a spouse, a partner, someone to share their life with, have children with. (nothing wrong if you don't want that, either, but many people do)
I don't think God cares much about what humans want; unless such humans want what God also wants ;) Please try again.
No need to try again when you are just telling us what you think God cares about, without supporting that statement at all.
Um, wait a minute.... You mean to tell me if your wants do not align with God's wants, God is okay with that???? So I do not have to follow what is instructed in the Bible if I do not want to, and God will not punish me?
I think you should not put words in my mouth.
tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:12 pm If God did not care what anyone wants (especially His own people), then why would He ever have bothered to answer prayers?
When you speak about prayers, are you merely speaking about ancient 'answered prayers', or current ones too? If it's the later, please respond to this thread:
Does it matter as to the point? I am making a point that supports the claim that God does care what humans want. Just because you care what someone wants doesn't mean that you give them everything they want or just leave them to run wild or never discipline. That would be impossible in this world anyway (because people want different and even conflicting things).

tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:12 pm
tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:13 pm You can be married and still devote yourself to God.
Again, why be married to another human, and prioritize their needs, if this will not happen in Heaven? Why is <the standard> different while on earth vs. Heaven?
You will be prioritizing the one you are married to in heaven (and on earth): the Master.
But the standard changed. Meaning, when you ascend to heaven, you no longer place higher priority on your once former human spouse, versus any other human(s). Why?
[/quote]

You might. Love does not just stop, even if some are loved more by some. Everyone is loved. Everyone is dear. That is enough, at least for me.


Peace again to you.
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Re: End of a marriage death?

Post #34

Post by POI »

Let's not forget what the OP addresses. (i.e.) "Why does the godly blessed marriage not continue on forever?"

Are you ever reunited with your former spouse in Heaven -- (yes or no)? If yes, do you still place favor to him/her, over others, in heaven? If not, why not?

Do you see your former spouse and say, "hey, we used to be united, but now you are the same to me as every other being here in Heaven."
tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:52 pm Well some of the issues go away (no widows going hungry, no orphans, etc.), but in fact you did provide for your household if you are in Christ, because God saves also those we love (as per previous examples). It is not as though you would be abandoning your children and loved ones, you would have eternal life, you and your loved ones. So what is the issue? Because I think you are making an issue out of nothing.
I would agree this 'issue' is not the be-all-end-all... However, I find it quite odd that the Bible would tell it's readers to place higher priority to your core family; but if you should happen to run into you core family again in Heaven, you treat them the same as all others in Heaven. Why does the standard change?
tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:52 pm I think you should not put words in my mouth.
Please answer the question(s):

If your wants do not align with God's wants, God is okay with that?

I do not have to follow what is instructed in the Bible if I do not want to, and God will not punish me?
tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:52 pm You will be prioritizing the one you are married to in heaven (and on earth): the Master.
Please allow me to clarify again:

Earthly devotion hierarchy: God>spouse>family>others
Heavenly devotion hierarchy: God>others

See the difference? Why does the standard change, in Heaven, when God is at the very top in both scenarios?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: End of a marriage death?

Post #35

Post by tam »

Peace to you,

I don't know if there is anything more for me to address. I've responded to all your comments. You seem to want to keep rephrasing the issue into a neat square box that you created (not a box that the bible created or that I created). For instance, you are drawing a conclusion from those verses in timothy that do not appear to be warranted. Then you keep wanting an explanation for the conclusion that you have drawn, and for me that conclusion is not even relevant. So what more can I say to the question of a conclusion I do not even hold?

I acknowledge that you find something odd. But I think I am just going to have to let the previous posts stand (at least on the matter of marriage).

As to the following (though I am not sure how these are relevant to anything):
tam wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:52 pm I think you should not put words in my mouth.
Please answer the question(s):

If your wants do not align with God's wants, God is okay with that?
I'm not sure how to answer that. God is not going to punish someone if their wants do not align with His wants, if that is what you mean by 'okay' - depending upon what one DOES. Often our will is going to be different than His will, hence we (at least we who are serving God and His Son) must learn to put God's will first, to disown ourselves and put God and His Son first. How can you truly fully 100% serve another person and their Kingdom if you are putting your will before theirs, before the needs of the King and Kingdom that you are meant to be serving? A wise King does not raise people to be king-priests in His Kingdom, to serve His Kingdom, if those people are going to serve their own interests first.

Not everyone who enters into the Kingdom are going to reign as king-priests with Christ, but for those who do, there are certain requirements that must be met for the job. That is not unreasonable. That is reasonable and necessary.
I do not have to follow what is instructed in the Bible if I do not want to, and God will not punish me?
You do not have to follow instructions from anyone or anything, including the law of the land, but that does not mean you are free from consequence of your actions. Again it depends on the instruction you are choosing not to follow.

For example, Christ said, "do not judge or you will be judged." Therefore, if you choose to judge, then you are aware of the consequence: you will be judged. He even elaborates that you will be judged by the same measure you used to judge someone else. He also said to forgive and you will be forgiven; to be merciful and you will be shown mercy. Obviously these, then, are good things to be.

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Re: End of a marriage death?

Post #36

Post by POI »

tam wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:56 pm I don't know if there is anything more for me to address. I've responded to all your comments. You seem to want to keep rephrasing the issue into a neat square box that you created (not a box that the bible created or that I created). For instance, you are drawing a conclusion from those verses in timothy that do not appear to be warranted. Then you keep wanting an explanation for the conclusion that you have drawn, and for me that conclusion is not even relevant. So what more can I say to the question of a conclusion I do not even hold?

I acknowledge that you find something odd. But I think I am just going to have to let the previous posts stand (at least on the matter of marriage).
The purpose of this thread is to explore IF the "marriage" to your spouse is forever, or not? By 'marriage', I mean you place a higher level of love and devotion to this partner, verses your run-o-da-mill fellow human(s). Seems as though you, as well as another Christian interlocutor, are under the impression that once you are in Heaven, your love for all others (in Heaven) are NOW all equal??? Meaning, all Heavenly occupants love each other the same? Meaning, if you should happen to run across your former earthly spouse in Heaven, you will treat them every bit the same as you would now treat any other resident in Heaven???

If this IS your position, then WHY the heck not just preach the SAME message to Bible readers? Why is the standard different on earth, verses Heaven? It should not be. The highest priority is still 'God' in both differing standards --- (earth vs. Heaven). The question remains, why allow humans to pledge allegiance to another human here on earth? Thus far, your best given explanation is that it gives humans exposure to a 'covenant'. Well, we know this is not necessary, as I explained prior....

So why not just instruct the SAME hierarchy here on earth, as it will apparently be in Heaven? (i.e.) God>others..... If you are to love all others the same, then you would not 'marry' anyone; but instead merely be instructed to love all equally and serve God the most --- (without the 'marriage' caveat to confuse the situation)....

In conclusion, I think the point of the OP is to demonstrate how strange such a scenario looks to be, if true.... Meaning, if you should happen to run across your spouse, or children in Heaven, you present no more favor for them, verses any other being next to you?.?.?.?.?.?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: End of a marriage death?

Post #37

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
POI wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 1:30 pm
tam wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:56 pm I don't know if there is anything more for me to address. I've responded to all your comments. You seem to want to keep rephrasing the issue into a neat square box that you created (not a box that the bible created or that I created). For instance, you are drawing a conclusion from those verses in timothy that do not appear to be warranted. Then you keep wanting an explanation for the conclusion that you have drawn, and for me that conclusion is not even relevant. So what more can I say to the question of a conclusion I do not even hold?

I acknowledge that you find something odd. But I think I am just going to have to let the previous posts stand (at least on the matter of marriage).
The purpose of this thread is to explore IF the "marriage" to your spouse is forever, or not? By 'marriage', I mean you place a higher level of love and devotion to this partner, verses your run-o-da-mill fellow human(s). Seems as though you, as well as another Christian interlocutor, are under the impression that once you are in Heaven, your love for all others (in Heaven) are NOW all equal??? Meaning, all Heavenly occupants love each other the same?
I never made that claim. I think I mentioned that in a previous post.


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Re: End of a marriage death?

Post #38

Post by POI »

tam wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:07 pm Peace to you,
POI wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 1:30 pm
tam wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:56 pm I don't know if there is anything more for me to address. I've responded to all your comments. You seem to want to keep rephrasing the issue into a neat square box that you created (not a box that the bible created or that I created). For instance, you are drawing a conclusion from those verses in timothy that do not appear to be warranted. Then you keep wanting an explanation for the conclusion that you have drawn, and for me that conclusion is not even relevant. So what more can I say to the question of a conclusion I do not even hold?

I acknowledge that you find something odd. But I think I am just going to have to let the previous posts stand (at least on the matter of marriage).
The purpose of this thread is to explore IF the "marriage" to your spouse is forever, or not? By 'marriage', I mean you place a higher level of love and devotion to this partner, verses your run-o-da-mill fellow human(s). Seems as though you, as well as another Christian interlocutor, are under the impression that once you are in Heaven, your love for all others (in Heaven) are NOW all equal??? Meaning, all Heavenly occupants love each other the same?
I never made that claim. I think I mentioned that in a previous post.


Peace again to you.
Does the "marriage" to your earthly spouse continue, if you should both wind up in Heaven? Yes or no?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: End of a marriage death?

Post #39

Post by tam »

POI wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:54 pm
tam wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:07 pm Peace to you,
POI wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 1:30 pm
tam wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:56 pm I don't know if there is anything more for me to address. I've responded to all your comments. You seem to want to keep rephrasing the issue into a neat square box that you created (not a box that the bible created or that I created). For instance, you are drawing a conclusion from those verses in timothy that do not appear to be warranted. Then you keep wanting an explanation for the conclusion that you have drawn, and for me that conclusion is not even relevant. So what more can I say to the question of a conclusion I do not even hold?

I acknowledge that you find something odd. But I think I am just going to have to let the previous posts stand (at least on the matter of marriage).
The purpose of this thread is to explore IF the "marriage" to your spouse is forever, or not? By 'marriage', I mean you place a higher level of love and devotion to this partner, verses your run-o-da-mill fellow human(s). Seems as though you, as well as another Christian interlocutor, are under the impression that once you are in Heaven, your love for all others (in Heaven) are NOW all equal??? Meaning, all Heavenly occupants love each other the same?
I never made that claim. I think I mentioned that in a previous post.


Peace again to you.
Does the "marriage" to your earthly spouse continue, if you should both wind up in Heaven? Yes or no?
No, not that I am aware of.

Marriage is a binding contract that ends at the death of at least one spouse (even according to the vows/terms). Hence a man or a woman is permitted to remarry if their spouse dies, without having committed adultery.


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Re: End of a marriage death?

Post #40

Post by POI »

tam wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:48 pm No, not that I am aware of.

Marriage is a binding contract that ends at the death of at least one spouse (even according to the vows/terms). Hence a man or a woman is permitted to remarry if their spouse dies, without having committed adultery.
Thank you for answering the question. So if you should happen to run across your earthly ex, or your earthly children or parents in Heaven, you no longer have the same feelings for them in Heaven, like you do here on earth? Meaning, you have equal love for all in Heaven; all the same -- (excluding God of course)? Your immediate former earthly family is no longer special?

(i.e.) Your love, in Heaven, for the countless folks you have never met is exactly the same as the family for which you devoted your entire earthly life?
Last edited by POI on Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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