God’s derivation of morals

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Willum
Savant
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
Location: Yahweh's Burial Place
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 82 times

God’s derivation of morals

Post #1

Post by Willum »

This is actually an ancient dilemma, that seems to be glossed over, sometimes bloodily, throughout history.

If the modern god, named God (as contrasted against Osiris and other deities), is the source of morality, then how can morality be other than an inappropriate opinion for wee humans, who are not omnipotent or omniscient, etc.?

If morals are not this god’s opinion, then where does this absolute morality come from?

If you claim God has the monopoly on morality because it created life, then you fail in several ways.
Men create things without dictating their morality. With no capacity to dictate morality.
Men create children with different opinions then their parents.
Further, parents should be able to, under the same constraints of this God perform morally. Such things as drown their children should they be ruled “wicked in the eyes of God.”
Finally, the ultimate absolute of: if God created morality, how is there morality, and not status quo? Is God incompetent?

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8487
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #31

Post by Tcg »

Eloi wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:23 pm Biblically, even non-believers can have acceptable morals, since human beings were created with a conscience that develops from an early age. So where would that non-believer's morality come from?
From humans. The same place all the gods' moralities come from. Of course, some humans' morality can evolve much faster than the gods' moralities. In some cases, it takes time for humans to allow their gods to catch up.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

Eloi
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1775
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 213 times
Contact:

Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #32

Post by Eloi »

Tcg wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:37 pm
Eloi wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:23 pm Biblically, even non-believers can have acceptable morals, since human beings were created with a conscience that develops from an early age. So where would that non-believer's morality come from?
From humans. The same place all the gods' moralities come from. Of course, some humans' morality can evolve much faster than the gods' moralities. In some cases, it takes time for humans to allow their gods to catch up.


Tcg
The question was for the author of the topic in order not to get sidetracked... In your case, it would only be a rhetorical question, because I know the answer. That you just posted is just your opinion and it is based solely on your assumption that we do not have a Creator. Since your premise is just an assumption, your conclusion is null.

Since life and nature show that we have a Creator, it is very feasible that we receive our innate moral sense from Him, our heavenly Father.

User avatar
Willum
Savant
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
Location: Yahweh's Burial Place
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 82 times

Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #33

Post by Willum »

[Replying to Eloi in post #30]

Hmmm...
Biblically, either God dictates morality as his own opinion of morality, or he gets morals from somewhere else.

If the morality is his opinion, why is it objectively better than someone else's opinion?
If the morality comes from some where else, where?

Eloi
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1775
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 213 times
Contact:

Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #34

Post by Eloi »

Willum wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:33 pm [Replying to Eloi in post #30]

Hmmm...
Biblically, either God dictates morality as his own opinion of morality, or he gets morals from somewhere else.

If the morality is his opinion, why is it objectively better than someone else's opinion?
If the morality comes from some where else, where?
I do not see anywhere in this topic any talk about any relationship between morality and opinion.

From the biblical point of view, morality based on divine principles is not based on a simple opinion, but on a behavioral education that benefits those who practice it.

Is. 48:17 This is what Jehovah says, your Repurchaser, the Holy One of Israel:
“I, Jehovah, am your God,
The One teaching you to benefit yourself,
The One guiding you in the way you should walk.
18 If only you would pay attention to my commandments!
Then your peace would become just like a river
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.
19 Your offspring would be as many as the sand
And your descendants as its grains.
Their name would never be cut off or annihilated from before me.”

User avatar
Willum
Savant
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
Location: Yahweh's Burial Place
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 82 times

Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #35

Post by Willum »

[Replying to Eloi in post #34]

Second line in the OP.
But if you wish to ignore the parts of the topic that make you uncomfortable, by all means, talk about the whether, or other things you don't understand.

Eloi
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1775
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 213 times
Contact:

Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #36

Post by Eloi »

Willum wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:47 pm [Replying to Eloi in post #34]

Second line in the OP.
But if you wish to ignore the parts of the topic that make you uncomfortable, by all means, talk about the whether, or other things you don't understand.
???

Are you serious? Moral is not based on opinions. Anybody can know that.

User avatar
otseng
Savant
Posts: 20499
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Has thanked: 197 times
Been thanked: 335 times
Contact:

Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #37

Post by otseng »

Willum wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:58 pm In a few more days you might be able to address the post!
Fingers crossed!
Moderator Comment

Please do not post personal comments about others.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

User avatar
Willum
Savant
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
Location: Yahweh's Burial Place
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 82 times

Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #38

Post by Willum »

Eloi wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:50 pm
Willum wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:47 pm [Replying to Eloi in post #34]

Second line in the OP.
But if you wish to ignore the parts of the topic that make you uncomfortable, by all means, talk about the whether, or other things you don't understand.
???

Are you serious? Moral is not based on opinions. Anybody can know that.
Not yourself apparently.
Where do God's moral come from?

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8487
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #39

Post by Tcg »

Eloi wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:50 pm Are you serious? Moral is not based on opinions. Anybody can know that.
I'm assuming you meant, "Morality is not based on opinions." But of course, it is. Even amongst those whose opinion is that it comes from god/gods. Their own opinion is primary not those of whichever god/gods that their opinion leads them to trust for a guide to morality. Once again it boils down to humans and their opinions.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

Eloi
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1775
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 213 times
Contact:

Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #40

Post by Eloi »

Willum wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:03 am
Eloi wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:50 pm
Willum wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:47 pm [Replying to Eloi in post #34]

Second line in the OP.
But if you wish to ignore the parts of the topic that make you uncomfortable, by all means, talk about the whether, or other things you don't understand.
???

Are you serious? Moral is not based on opinions. Anybody can know that.
Not yourself apparently.
Where do God's moral come from?
He made us. He can tell what action will have bad consecuences ... That is what God's law and biblical principles are about, and biblical morality; I'd been saying that for a while here. It is about knowledge, information. All human knowledge can not determine all information about what is better to ourselves, human beings. First, our lives are too short and can not examine effects in a long period of time; second, not all old knowledge is recorded, and the methods to investigate an research are not good enough; third, selfishness and personal interest are in the middle of the way.

This is not about opinions. There is too much involved in what should be consider universally moral or legal.

Post Reply