God’s derivation of morals

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Willum
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God’s derivation of morals

Post #1

Post by Willum »

This is actually an ancient dilemma, that seems to be glossed over, sometimes bloodily, throughout history.

If the modern god, named God (as contrasted against Osiris and other deities), is the source of morality, then how can morality be other than an inappropriate opinion for wee humans, who are not omnipotent or omniscient, etc.?

If morals are not this god’s opinion, then where does this absolute morality come from?

If you claim God has the monopoly on morality because it created life, then you fail in several ways.
Men create things without dictating their morality. With no capacity to dictate morality.
Men create children with different opinions then their parents.
Further, parents should be able to, under the same constraints of this God perform morally. Such things as drown their children should they be ruled “wicked in the eyes of God.”
Finally, the ultimate absolute of: if God created morality, how is there morality, and not status quo? Is God incompetent?

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Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #2

Post by 1213 »

Willum wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 11:53 am ...
Men create children with different opinions then their parents....
Men don't create children, not even women do that. The correct word would be procreate, which means people multiply, reproduce, generate, but not create.

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Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #3

Post by Willum »

[Replying to 1213 in post #2]

And God can’t even be suggested to do that, so your point is either a wash, or requires justification.
Either way, it does not come CLOSE to answering the subject of whether God’s opinion is morality, or if God has derived morals from elsewhere.
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.

You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

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Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #4

Post by nobspeople »

Willum wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 11:53 am This is actually an ancient dilemma, that seems to be glossed over, sometimes bloodily, throughout history.

If the modern god, named God (as contrasted against Osiris and other deities), is the source of morality, then how can morality be other than an inappropriate opinion for wee humans, who are not omnipotent or omniscient, etc.?

If morals are not this god’s opinion, then where does this absolute morality come from?

If you claim God has the monopoly on morality because it created life, then you fail in several ways.
Men create things without dictating their morality. With no capacity to dictate morality.
Men create children with different opinions then their parents.
Further, parents should be able to, under the same constraints of this God perform morally. Such things as drown their children should they be ruled “wicked in the eyes of God.”
Finally, the ultimate absolute of: if God created morality, how is there morality, and not status quo? Is God incompetent?
I've yet to see anything that shows morality came for God, god or any deity.
There seems to be this 'need' to attribute morality to god (or God, but heretofore will be god). Why? I see nothing (aside from some suggesting it) that morality - which isn't universal or even 'global' - came from anywhere other than humanity itself.
And why would humans want morality to come from god? It drowned an entire planet because it got a burr up its rear; it drowned an army because it caused their leader's heart to 'harden'; it condemned humanity to death for original sin even though it knew what was going to happen. Why would anyone that's sane want morality like that?!
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #5

Post by Hawkins »

[Replying to Willum in post #1]

It is status quo when you are given the soul. Since then everyone can lay a hand on it, especially the capable fallen angels. It is more like a pizza with toppings. God gives the bread part while different toppings are given under different situations, including parental education (which can start even when the child is in the womb), cultural education (cultures are formed generation after generation, not without Satan's influence), formal education (hmm. Satan lays a hand on it too) and etc.

The big picture is that this world (as the Bible put it) is under Satan's deep influence. Your hearts can be hardened, it can also be softened with your conscience deep inside you recalled. All these are a result of how free will behaves.

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Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #6

Post by Willum »

Yes, it does seem the jabberwoky will use its pizza wings to order out, once the harvest moon has set.

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Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #7

Post by 1213 »

Willum wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:40 am ... if God has derived morals from elsewhere.
Where would He have gotten it? I don't think there was anything that could have given it to God.

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Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #8

Post by Willum »

1213 wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:02 am
Willum wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:40 am ... if God has derived morals from elsewhere.
Where would He have gotten it? I don't think there was anything that could have given it to God.
Therefore morals must be his own opinion, an alien one at that, and so now we need to know why this god’s opinion on morality is better than anyone else’s’.

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Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #9

Post by 1213 »

Willum wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:19 am ...
Therefore morals must be his own opinion, an alien one at that, and so now we need to know why this god’s opinion on morality is better than anyone else’s’.
I think that would be in any case just a subjective opinion. I agree with God, because I think His will is righteous and good. For example the idea to love others and treat others as I want to be treated. I think it is just the most reasonable and logical moral principle. If I don't want to be murdered, I don't murder others, because if I would murder, I would give the same right to others, I could not say that others can't do what I myself do without being hypocrite. I believe it is the only perfect and objective and reasonable moral principle and that is why I believe it is also promoted by God. If you think some other principle is better, I would like to hear what it is.

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Re: God’s derivation of morals

Post #10

Post by Willum »

[Replying to 1213 in post #9]

Well as long as you think your opinion is identical to the lord of the universe, how can I argue with you?
Well played!
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.

You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

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