If you don't follow a/the Church...

[Willum]

If you claim to believe in the Christian god, but do not follow or believe in the practices of any church, and have your own unique perspective of this God, how can you distinguish this from a god you have simply made up?

In other words, how can you know your beliefs about God are better than a churches?
In other words, how do you know, of all the perspectives and interpretations of God, your's are correct? Or that God is what you have imagined?
And if not, how do you justify inventing or imagining a God in defiance of the certainly greater wisdom of a congregation?

If you are wrong, is it not CERTAINLY blasphemy to invent details of God you have no basis for believing are true?

[Clownboat]

Thank you for your effort - do,you feel able to explain (preferably in your own words ) why you believe this block of text you have copy-pasted is relevant to what I have written and how?

JW

I'm going to guess it was just sloppiness on your part and not outright dishonesty.
The only 'block of text' that I copy/pasted was a list (I provided the link) of many of the demigods that humans have invented throughout human history. I say invented and clearly impart my beliefs about the demigods to you in stating such. No dodging or pretending I don't understand simple questions.

I don't think I can explain this any better then I have already. Therefore, I don't think you are able to grasp what is being revealed (to answer this part of your inquiry - "do,you feel able to explain...").
Don't fret though, I debate for the readers sake and I'm confident they have grasped why you are so reluctant to answer the question.

Be well and I thank you for your lack of contribution. It means more than you will likely ever know and I'm truly greatful.

[JehovahsWitness]

I say invented and clearly impart my beliefs about the demigods to you in stating such.

Is there a reason why I should be interested in your beliefs? Are your beliefs the subject under discussion? Did I mention your beliefs or question you about them?

I am still at a loss as to why you feel the need to share your beliefs with me.


JW

[TRANSPONDER]

Peace to you,

Indeed. Cafeteria Christians justify themselves by saying that they are choosing the good. And how can we double -damned deity -deniers disagree? At the same time, we have a grudging respect for those who refuse to budge from the Bible 'Cover to Cover" even when it is demonstrably wrong.

Out of curiosity, how many people and/or sects do you know who claim to follow the bible 'cover to cover' (or 'as a whole'), yet have different, even conflicting, beliefs and practices?

Peace again.

Christian fundamentalists. Of whatever sect or denomination. I have heard it from Creationists so far as I can recall who held up the Bible and said they believe it, cover to cover. Mostly through online debate, I am familiar with Bible believers who drop this or that bit of it. But really, if you show me a Christian who believes that Genesis is factually correct, I'd bet they believe all the rest, too.

[Willum]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #152]

It is truly amazing how JW’s logic, even Biblical referencing, is shown wrong, and he still storms out in victory.
I suspect, we’re there a Satan, he has got his claws very deep in that one, and he will never know just how far from faith he is until too late, and then one should expect natural denial and complaint about how faithful he was, and he shouldn’t have to ask to be flipped over because one side is done.

[JehovahsWitness]

...I don't need someone to have authority over me to explain what the Bible says.

HEBREWS 13:17

Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and, be submissive , for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will render an account.

1TIMOTHY 3:2

The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife, moderate in habits, sound in mind, orderly, hospitable, qualified to teach,

...I don't need someone to have authority over me to explain what the Bible says.

1 TIMOTHY 5:17

Let the elders who preside in a fine way be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard in speaking and teaching.

...I don't need someone to have authority over me to explain what the Bible says.

1 THESSELONIANS 5:12

...show respect for those who are working hard among you and presiding over you in the Lord and admonishing you.

...I don't need someone to have authority over me to explain what the Bible says.

1 MATTHEW 24:45

Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

...I freely accept the teaching of anyone who is meeting the qualifications. ...

So you accept that you should be taught by human elders at regular meetings? You read your bible? Why did you not comment on the scriptures above? Could it be because they are clearly saying a believer should go to church! Isn't going to churchh what we call it when believers meet together for worship?


DO BELIEVERS HAVE TO GO TO CHURCH?

1 HEBREWS 10:23

And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom ... ?

"Going to church" and "submitting to authority" are altogether different.

And scriptures tell us to do BOTH (unless you have an alternative meaning for "be obedient ", "be submissive")

I can select the one to whom I will submit.
...

Deuteronomy 13:1-5

Indeed, that is as it should be. Scripturally though, that should be to Christ and those he has chosen to "feed his sheep". That is if one is a Christian.



JW

[TRANSPONDER]

Nice to see that you got on adjacent pages at least. But how does one 'select' (in places where you can) your religious Authority? Does each person become his own Theologian and decide which Church is teaching the Faith correctly? This isn't a try at a 'Stumper', but a serious question: how do either or both of you think the individual can and should decide which church to attend and which pastor to listen to?

Is it really "He's not telling me what I want to hear, so I'll find a preacher that is."

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Indeed. Cafeteria Christians justify themselves by saying that they are choosing the good. And how can we double -damned deity -deniers disagree? At the same time, we have a grudging respect for those who refuse to budge from the Bible 'Cover to Cover" even when it is demonstrably wrong.

Out of curiosity, how many people and/or sects do you know who claim to follow the bible 'cover to cover' (or 'as a whole'), yet have different, even conflicting, beliefs and practices?

Peace again.

Christian fundamentalists. Of whatever sect or denomination. I have heard it from Creationists so far as I can recall who held up the Bible and said they believe it, cover to cover. Mostly through online debate, I am familiar with Bible believers who drop this or that bit of it. But really, if you show me a Christian who believes that Genesis is factually correct, I'd bet they believe all the rest, too.

Sorry, perhaps I was unclear. My point was that the people who claim to believe the bible 'cover to cover' come up with and believe different interpretations of the same material, interpretations and doctrines that conflict with other people who claim to believe the bible 'cover to cover'. No one follows the bible cover to cover (as far as I have seen). Even people who claim to do so ignore/cannot see/interpret away those 'troublesome' verses that contradict their belief or their sect. So I just don't see much difference between them and what you call a 'cafeteria christian'.

I understand the events in Genesis to be correct as well. But I also know that the bible is not the Truth or the Word of God (the bible is not alive). Christ is the Truth, and the Word of God. Even the bible attests to this, yet that attestation is ignored, overlooked, replaced... with the bible being those things instead of Christ... and by the very people who claim to be following the bible.

"You diligently search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to ME to have life."




Peace again to you and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Clownboat]

I say invented and clearly impart my beliefs about the demigods to you in stating such.

Is there a reason why I should be interested in your beliefs? Are your beliefs the subject under discussion? Did I mention your beliefs or question you about them?

I am still at a loss as to why you feel the need to share your beliefs with me.

JW

Readers, note how I'm actually asking about a belief that JW holds. In good faith, I relay my thoughts on the belief. He then turns my good faith effort into the purpose of his response while ignoring the actual question once again.
You will know them by their fruits!

That JW is at a loss as he claims is continuing to be on display.

JW's own words: "what is relevant is that the bible character testified of her virginity (demigod) and if that were the case had good reason to believe her son would have miraculous powers even without seeing them demonstrated"

Therefore, this demigod character is relevant. If all it takes is for someone to testify that a god got them pregnant, then it would seem that JW would believe in many demigods.
This informs me that JW's beliefs are not consistent and his reasoning is flawed and thus why he refuses to answer the relevant question about other demigods. We are all forced to come to our own conclusions because of the loss he claims to find himself in.

[Candle]

Indeed, that is as it should be. Scripturally though, that should be to Christ and those he has chosen to "feed his sheep". That is if one is a Christian.



JW

You took a very specific instruction from Jehovah and turned it into "whatever you believe is right." The standard Jehovah set is his Torah. Jesus lived and taught those instructions. Jesus told His followers, specifically, to mind even the smallest details of Jehovah's instructions. Now, you have made it clear that Jehovah's standard is not longer an issue. Each person is free to interpret Scripture as they wish, and follow anyone that appeals to them, regardless of what they teach.

That is why Christianity is a dumpster fire of nonsense.

[TRANSPONDER]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

Indeed. Cafeteria Christians justify themselves by saying that they are choosing the good. And how can we double -damned deity -deniers disagree? At the same time, we have a grudging respect for those who refuse to budge from the Bible 'Cover to Cover" even when it is demonstrably wrong.

Out of curiosity, how many people and/or sects do you know who claim to follow the bible 'cover to cover' (or 'as a whole'), yet have different, even conflicting, beliefs and practices?

Peace again.

Christian fundamentalists. Of whatever sect or denomination. I have heard it from Creationists so far as I can recall who held up the Bible and said they believe it, cover to cover. Mostly through online debate, I am familiar with Bible believers who drop this or that bit of it. But really, if you show me a Christian who believes that Genesis is factually correct, I'd bet they believe all the rest, too.

Sorry, perhaps I was unclear. My point was that the people who claim to believe the bible 'cover to cover' come up with and believe different interpretations of the same material, interpretations and doctrines that conflict with other people who claim to believe the bible 'cover to cover'. No one follows the bible cover to cover (as far as I have seen). Even people who claim to do so ignore/cannot see/interpret away those 'troublesome' verses that contradict their belief or their sect. So I just don't see much difference between them and what you call a 'cafeteria christian'.

I understand the events in Genesis to be correct as well. But I also know that the bible is not the Truth or the Word of God (the bible is not alive). Christ is the Truth, and the Word of God. Even the bible attests to this, yet that attestation is ignored, overlooked, replaced... with the bible being those things instead of Christ... and by the very people who claim to be following the bible.

"You diligently search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to ME to have life."




Peace again to you and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

I get you. But the point remains about whether the Bible is factually true. For a heathen like me it is not a problem, but for believers, if they accept that the Bible is not correct cover to cover (at least broadly and interpretations aside) whether that impacts what they have in their heads about Jesus/God.

I take your point also about whether cover to cover means not accepting any errors at all or just rolling with a few odd mistakes (see 'inerrancy' - does that be generally factually reliable or perfect as dictated by God with no mistakes...which requires some kind of denial). I'm thinking of those who simply don't believe large chunks of the Bible but think what they still can believe is good enough for Faith in the Bible.