If you don't follow a/the Church...

Argue for and against Christianity

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Willum
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If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #1

Post by Willum »

If you claim to believe in the Christian god, but do not follow or believe in the practices of any church, and have your own unique perspective of this God, how can you distinguish this from a god you have simply made up?

In other words, how can you know your beliefs about God are better than a churches?
In other words, how do you know, of all the perspectives and interpretations of God, your's are correct? Or that God is what you have imagined?
And if not, how do you justify inventing or imagining a God in defiance of the certainly greater wisdom of a congregation?

If you are wrong, is it not CERTAINLY blasphemy to invent details of God you have no basis for believing are true?

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #51

Post by Willum »

I’m not sure what you’re getting at, if an outside observer can’t distinguish your answers, then that tells you about your answers.

You have made this op about your personal beliefs, that’s making my answers be very very delicate. So I don’t break forum rules by insulting you personally.

The problem is, you’ve not substantiated your answers, in anyway that can be distinguished from, well, fiction or irrational belief.

I refer to Clownbot, above.

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #52

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Willum wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:06 pm I’m not sure what you’re getting at, if an outside observer can’t distinguish your answers, then that tells you about your answers.
The only thing that tells a person is that an outside observer does not understand something. That could be the fault of the person explaining or it could be the fault of the outside observer (or both). Nothing more than that.
You have made this op about your personal beliefs,
YOU made this OP about personal beliefs. It is the TOPIC of the OP that YOU created.

that’s making my answers be very very delicate.
You have yet to answer the questions I asked of you.
So I don’t break forum rules by insulting you personally.
That's between you and the moderators; it makes absolutely no difference to me.
The problem is, you’ve not substantiated your answers, in anyway that can be distinguished from, well, fiction or irrational belief.

I refer to Clownbot, above.
Of course you do.



Peace again, to you both.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Willum
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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #53

Post by Willum »

[Replying to tam in post #52]

I am glad we came to an understanding.
Though I think leaving it at, “good talk,” would have benefited you more.

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #54

Post by nobspeople »

Willum wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:06 pm I’m not sure what you’re getting at, if an outside observer can’t distinguish your answers, then that tells you about your answers.

You have made this op about your personal beliefs, that’s making my answers be very very delicate. So I don’t break forum rules by insulting you personally.

The problem is, you’ve not substantiated your answers, in anyway that can be distinguished from, well, fiction or irrational belief.

I refer to Clownbot, above.
When people rely on fiction and irrational belief, we can't expect them to have substances to their answers past that. These unsubstantial responses don't make sense to people who don't operate in that way.
It's the power of indoctrination in combination of a needy and or wishful personality type.
Suffice it to say, for these types of personalities, they believe in what they believe which is, at the very least, amended by them (or created by them) to fit their chosen life style agenda. Which is more than fine for them. But it does make their 'logic'...interesting... at times.
To the point of the thread, in regards to these types of personalities:
They don't know their beliefs are better than the churches. They believe they are, or they wouldn't be following them as they do.
To their defense, many times they believe 'god spoke to me about XYZ'. Do they know that? No. Do they believe that? Yes. And that's all that can be asked of them.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #55

Post by 1213 »

Willum wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:17 am I am sorry, but how do you know it is only your limited scope that tells you the church contradicts the Bible?
By that the church can't provide wider and more reasonable scope.
Willum wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:17 amYour PERSONAL opinion, even from your own perspective, must allow you to acknowledge you are more likely to be wrong than a congregation.
Why? I change my mind on basis of what is reasonable, if congregation can't offer any reasonable answer to why Bible doesn't really mean what it says, I reject it.

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #56

Post by Willum »

[Replying to nobspeople in post #54]

Yes, but the issue is: Without the sanity of multiple perspectives, such as it is, people can believe and justify anything on the spectrum of “stark raving mad,” to perfectly reasonable, without missing a beat.

You can see that from the self-appointing beliefs of Biblical authority folks have within this post.
Their OPINION about their God is the correct one… of all the possible interpretations, they know, against ALL odds, theirs is right, even in the face of a congregation, and almost certainly wiser peoples.
Last edited by Willum on Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #57

Post by Willum »

[Replying to 1213 in post #55]

The odds of a group of people being unreasonable about a topic, verses you being the one at fault are astronomically against you.
Good morning!
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.

You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #58

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to Willum in post #56]
Yes, but the issue is: Without the sanity of multiple perspectives, such as it is, people can believe and justify anything on the spectrum of “stark raving mad,” to perfectly reasonable, without missing a beat.
Agreed. But most people never see their beliefs as "stark raving mad" because they can convince themselves of anything if they want to do so.
You can see Thant from the self-appointing beliefs of Biblical authority folks have within this post.
Not just this post, my friend. It runs rampant in here.
Their OPINION about their God is the correct one… of all the possible interpretations, they know, against ALL odds, theirs is right, even in the face of a congregation, and almost certainly wiser peoples.
They ignore evidence of the contrary and adhere to evidence that proves their point! If they want to believe 1+1= elephant, they can convince themselves of it.
It's amazing what the human mind can do for itself.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #59

Post by historia »

tam wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:13 pm
Therefore, I am not making up a belief about God, or relying upon my own interpretation or perspective. I am listening/looking to Christ to know God.
I'm not sure I fully understand your position, tam. Would you mind clarifying it for me?

Are you saying that you receive direct revelations from Christ?

Or are you just looking to Jesus' words and deeds as recorded in the gospels?

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #60

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
historia wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:16 am
tam wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:13 pm
Therefore, I am not making up a belief about God, or relying upon my own interpretation or perspective. I am listening/looking to Christ to know God.
I'm not sure I fully understand your position, tam. Would you mind clarifying it for me?

Are you saying that you receive direct revelations from Christ?

Or are you just looking to Jesus' words and deeds as recorded in the gospels?
I am not just looking to His words and deeds as recorded (though there are those as well). I am listening to Him, to Christ Himself, the living Word of God (who is alive and who speaks, as most living beings tend to do).


Peace again to you.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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