If you don't follow a/the Church...

Argue for and against Christianity

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Willum
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If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #1

Post by Willum »

If you claim to believe in the Christian god, but do not follow or believe in the practices of any church, and have your own unique perspective of this God, how can you distinguish this from a god you have simply made up?

In other words, how can you know your beliefs about God are better than a churches?
In other words, how do you know, of all the perspectives and interpretations of God, your's are correct? Or that God is what you have imagined?
And if not, how do you justify inventing or imagining a God in defiance of the certainly greater wisdom of a congregation?

If you are wrong, is it not CERTAINLY blasphemy to invent details of God you have no basis for believing are true?

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #71

Post by Eloi »

tam wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:46 pm (...)
A lost sheep would tell all that too.

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #72

Post by brunumb »

tam wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:23 am I am not just looking to His words and deeds as recorded (though there are those as well).
Interpretation: You do not simply rely on what are claimed to be his words recorded in the Bible. Is that correct? Do you have any problem or doubts about what is written?
tam wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:23 am I am listening to Him, to Christ Himself, the living Word of God (who is alive and who speaks, as most living beings tend to do).
Interpretation: You actually hear his voice in your head and listen to what is being said. Is that correct?

In the second instance, how do you determine that what you "hear" is not just your own thoughts based on what you believe you should be hearing?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #73

Post by brunumb »

tam wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:28 pm Audible, as in with the physical ears? I don't think so (though I have clearly heard Him call my name, waking me up, but that would not have been heard by anyone else). But within, in the spirit? Yes. He speaks to everyone, mind you, but not everyone hears or listens, or recognizes His voice. You have to listen; you also have to want to know what is true, or - just as people have selective hearing when someone is telling them something 'physically' they don't want to hear - people can have selective hearing when the Spirit is telling them something they do not want to hear.
How can you tell that simple confirmation bias is not in play? Everything you choose to hear is filtered through your beliefs. You could just as easily be talking to yourself and not tell the difference.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #74

Post by 1213 »

Willum wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:07 am [Replying to 1213 in post #55]

The odds of a group of people being unreasonable about a topic, verses you being the one at fault are astronomically against you.
Good morning!
Good morning!, Please explain how you calculated the odds?

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #75

Post by Willum »

[Replying to 1213 in post #74]

Sorry, if you don't understand the concept of peer review, democracy, objective opinions, and the understanding that 10 people are more likely to have at least one correct perspective than one, then nothing I could possibly present would change that mind of yours.

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #76

Post by nobspeople »

brunumb wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:38 am
tam wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:28 pm Audible, as in with the physical ears? I don't think so (though I have clearly heard Him call my name, waking me up, but that would not have been heard by anyone else). But within, in the spirit? Yes. He speaks to everyone, mind you, but not everyone hears or listens, or recognizes His voice. You have to listen; you also have to want to know what is true, or - just as people have selective hearing when someone is telling them something 'physically' they don't want to hear - people can have selective hearing when the Spirit is telling them something they do not want to hear.
How can you tell that simple confirmation bias is not in play? Everything you choose to hear is filtered through your beliefs. You could just as easily be talking to yourself and not tell the difference.
https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/a-to-z/ ... eir%20mind.

https://healthblog.uofmhealth.org/brain ... -psychosis

https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/feelin ... ng-voices/

Hearing voices no one else hears isn't as uncommon as some would like to think.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #77

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
brunumb wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:34 am
tam wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:23 am I am not just looking to His words and deeds as recorded (though there are those as well).
Interpretation: You do not simply rely on what are claimed to be his words recorded in the Bible. Is that correct?


That's not really an interpretation, but yes, correct.
Do you have any problem or doubts about what is written?
From Christ? Nothing comes to mind. There may have been (or may yet be) some things that I am not sure about what He meant, but that I set aside until such a time as I am able to receive understanding.
tam wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:23 am I am listening to Him, to Christ Himself, the living Word of God (who is alive and who speaks, as most living beings tend to do).
Interpretation: You actually hear his voice in your head and listen to what is being said. Is that correct?
Mostly correct. I would just emphasize that within doesn't mean 'in your head'. But rather, just within, in the spirit.
In the second instance, how do you determine that what you "hear" is not just your own thoughts based on what you believe you should be hearing?
I know, because I know me (and I know what is not me), and I know my own inner voice, and it is not the same as my dear Lord's voice. So this is not an issue for me (any more than it would be an issue for me to distinguish between my voice and my mother's voice, though it may take a little practice in the beginning because He is the Spirit, and speaks as such, and is heard in the spirit - and mankind is accustomed to the physical/sensual: the five physical senses of hearing, seeing, touching, smelling, tasting in/with the flesh).

But I will try and explain some things further so that you might have more to consider:

So... for one, you don't need to be taught something you already believe. If you are hearing something to correct an incorrect belief (which my Lord has done with me), it cannot then be based on what you believe you should be hearing. Plus, as I said, I know my own thoughts; I know what I know and do not know, and my Lord has certainly taught me things I do not know, that did not come from me. He has said things to me that have just stopped me in my tracks, from the power and WISDOM of that truth He just spoke. I didn't wait for that though, like some test. Once I learned that He speaks (which seems so silly that I never knew that before, because all living beings speak in some way), I asked for ears to hear (Him), and then I put faith in Him, that He would grant me my request, and I knew (without a doubt) that I would receive what I asked. Faith.


My Lord has also only ever spoken truth to me (or asked me questions that LEAD me to what is true, just as He did when he walked in the flesh); whereas I certainly do not not always know what is true, even about myself. So again, its not about hearing what we want to hear, or even what we believe we should hear... but rather about hearing what is TRUE.


Regardless of what I hear though (or what anyone else claims to hear and share), my Lord has taught me to test the inspired expression. Because people lie (even to themselves), and there are also lying spirits. Hence, we were warned to test the inspired expressions. Anyone can say, "Jesus told me to curse that person", but I would know to reject that, that would not be from my Lord (His name is not "Jesus" for one, and for two that goes against His words and His example. "Bless and do not curse", and He Himself asked forgiveness for those who wronged Him, even handed Him over to be executed). So my Lord has taught me to test against Him (ask Him, listen, remember His words and what He has already taught me); and to test against love... because God is love and what comes from God will not be in conflict with love; just as what is true will not be in conflict with Christ, who is Truth.

(if you are going to test against what is written, then test FIRST against what Christ has said in what is written, because He is the truth).



Peace again to you, and to you who are reading,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #78

Post by Willum »

[Replying to tam in post #77]

Well if Christ is your mantra, then you should be dismayed to know, that Christ was only quoted, he cannot be said to have said anything.

Oh well!

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #79

Post by 1213 »

Willum wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:11 am [Replying to 1213 in post #74]

Sorry, if you don't understand the concept of peer review, democracy, objective opinions, and the understanding that 10 people are more likely to have at least one correct perspective than one, then nothing I could possibly present would change that mind of yours.
Has it never happened that majority is wrong? Should Galileo have said, "ok, I am wrong, because you all disagree with me"?

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Re: If you don't follow a/the Church...

Post #80

Post by Willum »

[Replying to 1213 in post #79]

Sure, but with such a well reviewed and considered book as the Bible, the odds that your, OR ANYONE’s, modern, unique and personal perspective is correct, over a majority is pathetically laughable.

It should make an individual uncomfortable even proposing such a thing, and in ages past, let’s face it, you could be murdered for blasphemy.

Kind regards,

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