Is christianity selfish? Show it's not

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nobspeople
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Is christianity selfish? Show it's not

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Being I've been told this is 'uncivil', this will probably get me banned. So be it - I had a good run, but am over being
pushed around for not kissing up in here! :approve:

Here's how christianity is selfish:

God demands worship. This is a selfish act on its part.
James 5:13
Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise.
Matthew 4:10
Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”
But this one... this one says it all:
Exodus 20:1-26
And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, ...

Beyond that, simply logic shows it's a selfish religion:
The end result for any believer is to get to heaven. That benefits them AND ONLY THEM, as only the individual and their 'relationship' with god/jesus determines if they get into heaven or hell (for those that believe in those things).
I've been told you getting to heaven pleases god. Perhaps, but that, too, is selfish on its part: wanting to you worship it instead of being happy and content even if you don't make it to heaven to kiss up to it? Nah - god can't do that. After all, god is a jealous god (see above passage).
In other words, Bobby May getting to heaven in no way guarantees Billy Bob gets into heaven. So everything Bobby May says or does impacts her eternal life, not Billy Bob's. Same with Billy Bob: whatever he says or does impacts his eternal life, not Bobby May's.
Sure, there are phrases about 'do unto other' and the like. And that's fine. But you can do everything for everyone, and if you don't kiss up to god, accept you're a sinner, repent, you don't get to heaven. Period.
Likewise, you can do nothing for no one, and repent and get to heaven.
So what you do to others, so long as it's not sinful (and hurting god, mind you - this god - such a delicate flower), has zero to do with you getting into heaven.

This belief is ultimately a self serving belief system. And that's fine! I'm not saying it's bad. But for me to make that statement, then be 'turned in' to the MODs for being 'uncivil' when I simply stated a fact, shows the lack of honestly among believers. Be selfish! Relish in it! I don't care. But to get upset when a simple fact is stated, not in a rude or condescending way, is intellectually dishonest.

For discussion:
How is christainty a selfless religion?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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otseng
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Re: Is christianity selfish? Show it's not

Post #2

Post by otseng »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:48 am Being I've been told this is 'uncivil', this will probably get me banned. So be it - I had a good run, but am over being
pushed around for not kissing up in here! :approve:
Yeah, you're close to getting banned by not complying with the rules, which includes this thread.
God demands worship. This is a selfish act on its part.
People are free to worship or to reject God.
James 5:13
Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise.
How exactly does this signify selfishness?
Matthew 4:10
Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”
Is it selfish to worship God rather than Satan?
Exodus 20:1-26
And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, ...
God redeemed Israel by bringing them out of slavery. He demonstrated he is more powerful than any of the Egyptian gods. He freed them from bondage and established a covenant with them. So, when they went back to worship other gods, he was jealous.

And you left out the rest of the passage...

Exo 20:6. And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Beyond that, simply logic shows it's a selfish religion
Actually, it's quite the opposite. Selfishness is loving self the most. Christianity is loving God and others before self.
The end result for any believer is to get to heaven.
Yeah, that's what many churches teach, but I would disagree with it. The end result should be a relationship with God.
This belief is ultimately a self serving belief system.
This is a false conception of what Christianity is truly about.
But for me to make that statement, then be 'turned in' to the MODs for being 'uncivil' when I simply stated a fact
It is not a fact. But, regardless, what is at issue is making an unsubstantiated negative blanket statement, so you got a comment.
nobspeople wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 12:59 pmBut christianity is a selfish religion, so it should come as little surprise that these people are like this.
And not sure why you are so upset about a comment (which is not a strike against you) and then posting this thread to protest it and risk getting banned for it.

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Re: Is christianity selfish? Show it's not

Post #3

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to otseng in post #2]
Yeah, you're close to getting banned by not complying with the rules, which includes this thread.
MOD comments can get one banned, yet many others get WARNINGS and are still here.
People are free to worship or to reject God.
Doesn't change the fact god demands it and punishes for not doing it.
How exactly does this signify selfishness?
It covers all basis of life: good times = worship bad times = worship.
Is it selfish to worship God rather than Satan?
It's saying one must worship
God redeemed Israel by bringing them out of slavery.
So what?
So, when they went back to worship other gods, he was jealous.
So he is jealous. Not very becoming a perfect thing
And you left out the rest of the passage...
Not purposefully as that's all that was providing on the link I had but:
Exo 20:6. And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Again, so what? Because god's merciful - THIS TIME - we have to worship it? Laughable
Selfishness is loving self the most.
Yes, and YOU get to heaven for YOUR reward. What YOU do doesn't ensure anyone else gets to heaven. Loving the self and getting to heaven benefits YOU and no one else. That's selfish
This is a false conception of what Christianity is truly about.
Getting to heaven is the end goal of every christian if they're honest with themselves. That's selfishness
It is not a fact.
It is as I've shown, but you're, of course, free to discount it because it doesn't fit your your chosen lifestyle agenda. Hiding from the truth doesn't make the truth any less real
And not sure why you are so upset about a comment (which is not a strike against you) and then posting this thread to protest it and risk getting banned for it.
Feel free to IM me for another explanation as to not dilute the thread.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Is christianity selfish? Show it's not

Post #4

Post by Overcomer »

Is being a Christian a matter of selfishness? The answer is no, not when the Christian life is understood rightly and lived out properly.

This is the gospel in a nutshell:

“For God so loved the world, he sent his only-begotten son that whosoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:15).

Jesus described his purpose in coming to earth:

“The Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many" (Mark 10:45).

Sacrificial love, as modeled by Christ, is at the heart of Christianity. Christians are supposed to work with the Holy Spirit’s guidance and empowerment to grow more and more like Christ as we mature.

Paul is a great example of someone who imitated Christ in his selflessness. He stated that he himself would be willing to die if it meant bringing the Jews to Christ as he stated here:

“For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race” (Rom. 9:3).

Paul tells us to imitate Christ in this passage:

“Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind, regard one another as more important than yourselves; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross” (Phil. 2:3-8).

And this attitude is summarized in the Golden Rule:

“Do to others as you would have them do to you” (Luke 6:31).

Jesus instructs us to imitate him in his love, saying,

“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34).

And we aren’t just told to love the nice people, the people who are easy to love; we are told to love the unlovable and even those who give us reason to despise them:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘Hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven”(Matt. 5:44).

We were enemies of God and yet he sent Christ to us to redeem us. We are to show that same love to others no matter who they are and no matter what they have done.

There are so many passages about love in the Scriptures. To list them all would make this post incredibly long. There is a partial list here:

https://www.openbible.info/topics/love

Becoming more like Jesus is a life-long process and, because none of us is perfect, you will not find a Christian who gets it totally right all the time, even those who are filled with the Holy Spirit, because the “old man” in us still lingers and must be conquered each day. This is what it means when we are told to “take up our cross” on a daily basis (Matt. 16:24-26).

Christians are also encouraged to work with the Holy Spirit to manifest the fruit of the Spirit as follows:

There are so many passages about love in the Scriptures. To list them all would make this post incredibly long. There is a partial list here:

https://www.openbible.info/topics/love

Becoming more like Jesus is a life-long process and, because none of us is perfect, you will not find a Christian who gets it totally right all the time, even those who are filled with the Holy Spirit because the “old man” in us still lingers and must be conquered each day. This is what it means when we are told to “take up our cross” on a daily basis (Matt. 16:24-26).

Christians are to work with the Holy Spirit to manifest the fruit of the Spirit:

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law" (Gal. 5:22, 23).

There is no selfishness in that fruit.

Given that the heart of Christianity is sacrificial love, it is not selfish, but is, rather, just the opposite when, as I said, understood and lived out correctly. Christianity is all about being other-centered – centered on Christ and, in result, centered on others in love.

Here are a few links for further reading:

https://www.gotquestions.org/take-up-your-cross.html

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotion ... is-kinsmen

This one gives a great definition of sacrificial love as well as examples of how we can employ and manifest it in our lives:

https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-s ... -love.html

I should also note that it's important to keep in mind that, when the Bible talks about love, it isn't talking about warm and fuzzy feelings. Biblical love is all about wanting God's best for everybody. It is possible to want that for even our enemies.

Lastly, I could not post anything about love without presenting the most famous Scripture passage about it:

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres" (1 Cor. 13:4-8).

There's no room for selfishness there.

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Re: Is christianity selfish? Show it's not

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:48 am Being I've been told this is 'uncivil', this will probably get me banned.
Don't jump nobspeople you're the gift that just keeps on giving as far as I'm concerned!

To answer your question, no I don't believe demanding worship should be considered selfish, mainly because it is not selfish to ask someone to do what is good for them. Would it be selfish for a mother to insist her child eat three nutritious meals a day or look both ways before crossing a road?

If God made us to have a relationship with him then it would be an act of kindness to ask us to do just that.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Is christianity selfish? Show it's not

Post #6

Post by Purple Knight »

God has a right to be selfish.+

I don't know why this surprises anyone since, if God does not exist, then we all have a right to be selfish and no one can really say a single thing against it.

Now, obviously, if there is only one person in the universe, he can be selfish. But.

If one person wants to be selfish, and a second wants to change the behaviour of the first, no resolution can be come to without an arbiter who is above both.

I mean, you can say it's detrimental to be selfish, it might be better to work together, you can even band together and push out selfish people and you even ought to do so if this helps you...

...But saying selfishness is morally wrong, against some universal standard? I would object on the grounds of how you come by that standard, and I might say that it is no better than how I come by a standard in which it is permissible to be selfish.

Selfishness is a very special case, since if vetoed with practical benefit, anyone who says do not be selfish is being selfish by that utterance. If he was truly unselfish he wouldn't care if others were selfish. (That said, it does work out better for everyone if no one is selfish. It's just that you can't enforce that without being a hypocrite.)

And if selfishness is to be vetoed with some higher morals, and not practical benefit, where have you found them that makes your don't-be-selfish superior to my it's-okay-to-be-selfish?

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Re: Is christianity selfish? Show it's not

Post #7

Post by Purple Knight »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:30 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:48 am Being I've been told this is 'uncivil', this will probably get me banned.
Don't jump nobspeople you're the gift that just keeps on giving as far as I'm concerned!

To answer your question, no I don't believe demanding worship should be considered selfish, mainly because it is not selfish to ask someone to do what is good for them. Would it be selfish for a mother to insist her child eat three nutritious meals a day or look both ways before crossing a road?
To be completely fair I would wonder, though not immediately jump to the conclusion, if the mother specifically created the child to be a perpetual child that would never grow into a being capable of understanding for itself why it should not run in the road.

And to be fair again maybe that actually is in the Plan and we do "grow up" if we reach Paradise. Maybe these baby stages are necessary. But looking from the baby's eyes, all that is going to be seen is I was going to go over there why did she stop me? The baby should see it as unfair.

Ultimately I think I agree, however. With a caveat. If God really has our best interests at heart. Strong if. Double F's iff. If, but only if.

Yes it's a good analogy because we do actually accept this in practice. The child should obey the mother under exactly these same conditions, because the mother has the child's best interests at heart. It's fair to ask for the obedience if that's really the case. When she doesn't the State takes the child away and ought to do so.

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Re: Is christianity selfish? Show it's not

Post #8

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #5]
I don't believe demanding worship should be considered selfish, mainly because it is not selfish to ask someone to do what is good for them.
For your POV, how does 'doing what is good [for them]' equate to worshipping? How do you make that correlation?
Would it be selfish for a mother to insist her child eat three nutritious meals a day or look both ways before crossing a road?
Probably would depend on what the mother is getting out of it, if anything. Does this mother demand the child worship her?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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