Christians and their 'bad apple-ism'

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nobspeople
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Christians and their 'bad apple-ism'

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

In a recent thread, when asked 'what percentage/how much of the bible needs to be real for you to believe?', the answers' ranges weren't too surprising.
I was once told my experiences with XYZ group shouldn't soil my view of the whole group. When ask exactly how many I should have experiences with to form an opinion, I was met with nothing of value.

There is a saying of 'one bad apple spoils the whole bushel'. Can this thinking be attributed to christians and, by proxy, the whole belief system?
I believe it's very possible. Why? Because god should have 'better control over the situation' if god is wanting his sheep to minister and, thus, draw more people into its 'bosom' (no people aren't robots but that doesn't mean god should have some sort of control over situations and peoples' heart).

I don't believe anyone honestly thinks christians should be perfect. Humans are going to fail, even the most devout and righteous. As the saying goes, 'christians aren't perfect, just forgiven'. That said, christians should be held to a higher standard than the lay person simply because they have access to 'a power' or influence that others do not, as well as 'knowing better' when it comes to doing the right vs. wrong thing.

This leads to the concept of the 'one bad apple'. One bad experience with a christian can hurt another's view on the belief system, or at least that denomination. But is this appropriate? Is it logical?

For discussion:
Should having a bad experience with one christian be detrimental to one's view of christianity?
If not, how many 'bad experiences' should one have to form an accurate opinion of christianity?
Has this happened to you?
Do believers accept that 'one bad apple' can sully the view of another for their religion? Or do believers have a totally different POV on the subject?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Christians and their 'bad apple-ism'

Post #2

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

Reading the Bible does not bring salvation. It is belief in Jesus that He died for your sins. That is what brings salvation.

That means
1. You believe that Jesus is God
2. That you are a sinner
3. Jesus died in your place for your sins
4. Jesus rose again for the forgiveness of your sin.

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Re: Christians and their 'bad apple-ism'

Post #3

Post by Miles »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 2:47 pm [Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

Reading the Bible does not bring salvation. It is belief in Jesus that He died for your sins. That is what brings salvation.

That means

1. You believe that Jesus is God. Boy, this pretty much eliminates me right out of the gate; :? however . . .

2. That you are a sinner. I am that, but as I've heard, so is everyone else. Tell me something I don't know.

3. Jesus died in your place for your sins. Thanks JC, I guess, but why did god need you when all he would have needed to do is
........................................................... snap his fingers to abolish my sins? He could have done that, couldn't he?

4. Jesus rose again for the forgiveness of your sin. Again, nice, but why all the bother when the finger snapping thing could
......................................................................... work just as easily?



.

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Re: Christians and their 'bad apple-ism'

Post #4

Post by Goat »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 2:47 pm [Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

Reading the Bible does not bring salvation. It is belief in Jesus that He died for your sins. That is what brings salvation.

That means
1. You believe that Jesus is God
2. That you are a sinner
3. Jesus died in your place for your sins
4. Jesus rose again for the forgiveness of your sin.
What do you mean when you say 'Salvation' (there are different concepts) Why do you need salvation?
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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Re: Christians and their 'bad apple-ism'

Post #5

Post by brunumb »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 2:47 pm [Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

Reading the Bible does not bring salvation. It is belief in Jesus that He died for your sins. That is what brings salvation.

That means
1. You believe that Jesus is God
2. That you are a sinner
3. Jesus died in your place for your sins
4. Jesus rose again for the forgiveness of your sin.
What if you can't believe any of that? Believing in something is not simply a matter of choice. Your brain needs to be convinced that something is true or real. If it is not, then what?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: Christians and their 'bad apple-ism'

Post #6

Post by JoeyKnothead »

nobspeople wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 2:24 pm ...
Should having a bad experience with one christian be detrimental to one's view of christianity?
Nowadays, for me, it's my negative view of Christianity that affects my negative view of Christians.

If otherwise intelligent folks believe such outlandish, unproven, unprovable claims, well boy howdy.

But then again, I can't rightly tell what the inside of a high school looks like.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

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Re: Christians and their 'bad apple-ism'

Post #7

Post by JoeyKnothead »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 2:47 pm [Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

Reading the Bible does not bring salvation. It is belief in Jesus that He died for your sins. That is what brings salvation.

That means
1. You believe that Jesus is God
2. That you are a sinner
3. Jesus died in your place for your sins
4. Jesus rose again for the forgiveness of your sin.
What kinda goofy "loving" God is it, that folks'd hafta need em the salvating from?

That ain't God - that's Satan.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

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Re: Christians and their 'bad apple-ism'

Post #8

Post by nobspeople »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 2:47 pm [Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

Reading the Bible does not bring salvation. It is belief in Jesus that He died for your sins. That is what brings salvation.

That means
1. You believe that Jesus is God
2. That you are a sinner
3. Jesus died in your place for your sins
4. Jesus rose again for the forgiveness of your sin.
How can you believe if you've not read the bible for yourself?
That aside, how does believing in jesus speak to the thread topic?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Christians and their 'bad apple-ism'

Post #9

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Bad appleism :) love it. Yes. It has to be, hasn't it, how you and I see it, rather than how they'd like to spin it.

You and I (dudes and dudesses) look at a decency and family values - spitting pulpit - thumper who is caught doing the dirty and in doing some exhibition repentance is paraded as Forgiven if not some sort of martyred saint. Bad apple or is the whole barrel infected?

Obviously we Darwininst Stanspawn are not going to be inclined to respond favourably to appeals to take the best view of these shenanigans, either within the Protestant or Catholic church, no more than we should excuse scammers and swindlers in Hinduism or Burmese Buddhism being used as a cover for ethnic cleansing.

And yet, there is the example. Do the bad apples in Hinduism or Buddhism infect the whole barrel? Not really, nor do the individual serial killers who attend a church mean that the church is infected.(1) And there we are, I think. Bad apples who can be tossed out or a whole bad barrel that will infect any fresh fruit. A decent religious community who are not to be blamed for the odd monk who gets drunk and exposes himself outside the local school. Or a religious community that is itself exploitative, if not actually criminal.

But there are bad barrels and that's the question we have to ask. Let's bite the bullet by the horns. No matter how the Faithful or the apologists try to damage - limit or fend off accusations, cover ups of dirty dealings in a lot of churches leave us wondering, quite apart from looking at the whole political rally plus freaky rave party vibe of the megachurch phenomenon, and I needn't labour the questions of the learjet owning evangelists who simply take advantage of an existing bad barrel situation to get rich.

I have heard the apologists. "It's ok since he is bringing the Gospel to the people". But as a Hellbound heathen I am not buying it. Paul says 'Shall we do evil that Good will come of it?" The answer is no. Bad apples do not infect the barrel -if tossed out in time, but a bad barrel means that a sound apple has no chance.

(1) I've been watching casual criminalist a bit.

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Re: Christians and their 'bad apple-ism'

Post #10

Post by nobspeople »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:59 am Bad appleism :) love it. Yes. It has to be, hasn't it, how you and I see it, rather than how they'd like to spin it.

You and I (dudes and dudesses) look at a decency and family values - spitting pulpit - thumper who is caught doing the dirty and in doing some exhibition repentance is paraded as Forgiven if not some sort of martyred saint. Bad apple or is the whole barrel infected?

Obviously we Darwininst Stanspawn are not going to be inclined to respond favourably to appeals to take the best view of these shenanigans, either within the Protestant or Catholic church, no more than we should excuse scammers and swindlers in Hinduism or Burmese Buddhism being used as a cover for ethnic cleansing.

And yet, there is the example. Do the bad apples in Hinduism or Buddhism infect the whole barrel? Not really, nor do the individual serial killers who attend a church mean that the church is infected.(1) And there we are, I think. Bad apples who can be tossed out or a whole bad barrel that will infect any fresh fruit. A decent religious community who are not to be blamed for the odd monk who gets drunk and exposes himself outside the local school. Or a religious community that is itself exploitative, if not actually criminal.

But there are bad barrels and that's the question we have to ask. Let's bite the bullet by the horns. No matter how the Faithful or the apologists try to damage - limit or fend off accusations, cover ups of dirty dealings in a lot of churches leave us wondering, quite apart from looking at the whole political rally plus freaky rave party vibe of the megachurch phenomenon, and I needn't labour the questions of the learjet owning evangelists who simply take advantage of an existing bad barrel situation to get rich.

I have heard the apologists. "It's ok since he is bringing the Gospel to the people". But as a Hellbound heathen I am not buying it. Paul says 'Shall we do evil that Good will come of it?" The answer is no. Bad apples do not infect the barrel -if tossed out in time, but a bad barrel means that a sound apple has no chance.

(1) I've been watching casual criminalist a bit.
I think clarification is needed in this thread.
Surely, one worthless, terrible person doesn't mean ALL the people in that person's circle are literally worthless and terrible. But does it mean how they are perceived, initially, as worthless and terrible?
Or does that clarification not needed?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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