Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

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Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

Post #1

Post by Diogenes »

Christianity (and religion in general) gets back to its primary purpose:
Being a Tool for the State.
Since Constantine, the Church has been used to serve the interests of the State.
Before Constantine, Abraham invoked the name of 'God' to build and control his tribe.

Now we have the Russian Orthodox Church supporting the genocide against the Ukrainian people.
Since March 6th, when Kirill, the patriarch of Moscow and primate of the Russian Orthodox Church, gave an incendiary homily likening Russia’s invasion to a culture war against the West, plenty of questions have been asked about his role and his motives. Is he a tool of Vladimir Putin or Putin’s spiritual adviser? Is his vision of “Russky Mir” (“Russian World”) the basis for Putin’s war
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-co ... in-ukraine
There's nothing new under the Sun, but at least the Pope gets it:
"Pope Francis warned the leader of the Russian Orthodox Church not to be “Putin’s altar boy” and justify the Russian president’s invasion of Ukraine."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... h-ukraine/
[edit]
The question for debate: Is the primary purpose of religion to aid the State in its control of the populace?*

______________
*Thanks to brunumb for reminding me to pose a question for debate
Last edited by Diogenes on Thu May 05, 2022 1:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

Post #11

Post by Tcg »

Athetotheist wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:57 am
Tcg wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 12:39 am [Replying to Athetotheist in post #6]

"Splinter religions?" What's the difference between them and any other religion? Is Christianity one of them?


Tcg
In Christianity, the splinters are known as denominations.
If they are in Christianity, then they aren't "splinter religions" as all Christian denominations are part of the religion known as Christianity. What has been described is different flavors of the same religion.


Tcg
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Re: Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

Post #12

Post by Athetotheist »

Tcg wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 6:04 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:57 am
Tcg wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 12:39 am [Replying to Athetotheist in post #6]

"Splinter religions?" What's the difference between them and any other religion? Is Christianity one of them?


Tcg
In Christianity, the splinters are known as denominations.
If they are in Christianity, then they aren't "splinter religions" as all Christian denominations are part of the religion known as Christianity. What has been described is different flavors of the same religion.
That doesn't stop some from accusing each other of not being "true Christians".

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Re: Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

Post #13

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Athetotheist wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:33 pm
Tcg wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 6:04 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:57 am
Tcg wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 12:39 am [Replying to Athetotheist in post #6]

"Splinter religions?" What's the difference between them and any other religion? Is Christianity one of them?


Tcg
In Christianity, the splinters are known as denominations.
If they are in Christianity, then they aren't "splinter religions" as all Christian denominations are part of the religion known as Christianity. What has been described is different flavors of the same religion.
That doesn't stop some from accusing each other of not being "true Christians".
I've only ever found the Scottish to do that.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

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Re: Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

Post #14

Post by Tcg »

Athetotheist wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:33 pm
Tcg wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 6:04 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:57 am
Tcg wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 12:39 am [Replying to Athetotheist in post #6]

"Splinter religions?" What's the difference between them and any other religion? Is Christianity one of them?


Tcg
In Christianity, the splinters are known as denominations.
If they are in Christianity, then they aren't "splinter religions" as all Christian denominations are part of the religion known as Christianity. What has been described is different flavors of the same religion.
That doesn't stop some from accusing each other of not being "true Christians".
That is totally irrelevant to the question I asked. This doesn't address what was meant by "splinter religions" and how to distinguish them from any other religion.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

Post #15

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Tcg wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 12:51 am
JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 11:42 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:33 pm
Tcg wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 6:04 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:57 am
Tcg wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 12:39 am [Replying to Athetotheist in post #6]

"Splinter religions?" What's the difference between them and any other religion? Is Christianity one of them?


Tcg
In Christianity, the splinters are known as denominations.
If they are in Christianity, then they aren't "splinter religions" as all Christian denominations are part of the religion known as Christianity. What has been described is different flavors of the same religion.
That doesn't stop some from accusing each other of not being "true Christians".
I've only ever found the Scottish to do that.
This is troo, the noo. They will often employ the No True Christian' fallacy when denouncing one another as not being Real Scotsman. "Nay troo Scotsman e'er wears anything under th' kilt!"
Athetotheist wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:33 pm
Tcg wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 6:04 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:57 am
Tcg wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 12:39 am [Replying to Athetotheist in post #6]

"Splinter religions?" What's the difference between them and any other religion? Is Christianity one of them?


Tcg
In Christianity, the splinters are known as denominations.
If they are in Christianity, then they aren't "splinter religions" as all Christian denominations are part of the religion known as Christianity. What has been described is different flavors of the same religion.
That doesn't stop some from accusing each other of not being "true Christians".
That is totally irrelevant to the question I asked. This doesn't address what was meant by "splinter religions" and how to distinguish them from any other religion.
It's about the central tenets of all Christianity. I'd say that Faith in Jesus as risen messiah and such Faith being the basis of hopes of being saved. For me (an atheist) regarding the Pope as God's Authority over Christians (at least) is irrelevant. It is a fact that some Christians will regard others with the same core beliefs but differring on something else (whether significant or truly trivial) as not really Christians and (so it seems) likely to end up in Hell alongside the atheists and pagans. I suppose that Some Christians might really regard differring on doctrine as irrelevant..in which case, why is Right Interpretation relevant? Or they may want to deny that this schism happens because of course it debunks Pascal's wager even more than "Bet on the true religion - if you can work out which it is", or it may simply be Deny everything that an atheist might use to score a point, even if it's obviously true.

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Re: Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

Post #16

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Diogenes wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:55 pmChristiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots
Diogenes wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:47 am


Jesus and Christianity have very little in common.
The "roots " of somethjng is generally understood to be its origins, its primary source. Since the first people to take on the name "Christians" were the followed of Jesus of Nazareth, how can the roots of Chrstianity not be Jesus and his original first century followers ?

DID JESUS AND FIRST CENTURY CHRISTIANS GET INVOLVED WITH POLITICS?


John 6:15
Then Jesus, realizing that they were about to come and make Him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by Himself
JOHN 17: 15, 16

“I request you, not to take them out of the world, but to watch over them because of the wicked one. They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.”
JOHN 18:36 - Berean Study Bible
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world; if it were, My servants would fight to prevent My arrest by the Jews. But now My kingdom is not of this realm.”



Further reading: Why Do Jehovah's Witnesses Maintain Political Neutrality?
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... t_index]=0

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To read more please go to other posts related to POSTS RELATED to ...

RELIGION, WAR and ...POLITICS
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Christianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

Post #17

Post by Diogenes »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 3:07 pm
Diogenes wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:55 pmChristianity (and religion in general) gets back to its political roots
Diogenes wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:47 am Jesus and Christianity have very little in common.
The "roots " of somethjng is generally understood to be its origins, its primary source. Since the first people to take on the name "Christians" were the followed of Jesus of Nazareth, how can the roots of Chrstianity not be Jesus and his original first century followers ?
Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian. He certainly was Paul's inspiration for starting Christianity. However, there is something more fundamental you may not realize, and that is the almost inescapable connection between religion and politics. Christianity arose in a Roman province, Roman Judea. But long before the Romans, Judaism and politics were inseparable. This was also true of Rome, where various Caesars claimed to be God, or like Julius Caesar, claimed a god (Venus) as his special patron.
Entire books have been devoted to the subject:


"... scholars looking to explain the emergence of Christianity long argued, these developments are a natural outgrowth of a society with a high degree of integration between politics and religion."
https://www.encyclopedia.com/environmen ... -religions

Despite Jesus' efforts to emphasize the spiritual and the Kingdom of Heaven, Christianity became political almost immediately. I suppose it was inevitable since Rome ruled Palestine and used Jewish priests to control the people; as well as those priests using Roman authority for their own purposes. Paul, the earliest NT writer gave advice on politics as well as marriage, famously writing in Romans 1 that Christians should follow political authority.

Sadly, things may be even worse today with 81% of white evangelicals voting for Trump. A recent article in the Atlantic focuses on this unholy alliance and how many evangelicals are leaving their churches for others more conservative politically:
Before I turn to the Word,” the preacher announces, “I’m gonna do another diatribe.”
“Go on!” one man yells. “Amen!” shouts a woman several pews in front of me.

Between 40 minutes of praise music and 40 minutes of preaching is the strangest ritual I’ve ever witnessed inside a house of worship. Pastor Bill Bolin calls it his “diatribe.”
....
“On the vaccines …” he begins.

For the next 15 minutes, Bolin does not mention the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, or the life everlasting. Instead, he spouts misinformation and conspiratorial nonsense, much of it related to the “radically dangerous” COVID-19 vaccines.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... on/629631/

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Re: Christianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

Post #18

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Diogenes wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 6:50 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 3:07 pm
Diogenes wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:55 pmChristianity (and religion in general) gets back to its political roots
Diogenes wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:47 am Jesus and Christianity have very little in common.
The "roots " of somethjng is generally understood to be its origins, its primary source. Since the first people to take on the name "Christians" were the followers of Jesus of Nazareth, how can the roots of Chrstianity not be Jesus and his original first century followers ?
Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian. He certainly was Paul's inspiration for starting Christianity.

Jesus started Christianity. Although Jesus was indeed a Jew he announced the end of the Jewish temple based system and taught his disciples a new commandement and alternative ceremonies.

Furthermore, if the bible narrative is to be believed, Jesus companions and faithful Apostles propulgated his teachings and established what amounted to a new religion. So, since you did not answer the original question I will repeat, how can the roots of Chrstianity not be considered Jesus and his original first century followers ?




RELATED POSTS

Did Jesus intend to start a "new religion"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 45#p792645
To read more please go to other posts related to...

RELIGION, CHRISTIANITY and ...CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed May 11, 2022 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

Post #19

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Perhaps the difference is between

Doctrinal Roots,
purported roots
political roots.

In which case the Roots (for me) are Paul and whatever he got from the disciples being reworked to start his own religion, really.

The purported Roots are Jesus' teachings. Again, for me, Jesus taught none of this stuff but it was pushed iinto Jesus' mouth by Greek Christians.

The political roots are effectively when Constantine made it the state religion and it was thereafter able to use the state to suppress all other religions (and even other Christian sects).

That (I argue) is what the battle is now, in the US. Christianity is now politicised and it is (make no mistake) about whether we get Christian theocracy or not.

Just my take. I'm sure our Chum JW will disagree. But I think I'm right :)

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Re: Christianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

Post #20

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Diogenes wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 6:50 pm
Despite Jesus' efforts to emphasize the spiritual and the Kingdom of Heaven, Christianity became political almost immediately.
So you recognise that Jesus of Nazareth did not preach a political gospel?
Diogenes wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 6:50 pm... Christianity became political almost immediately.
Is there not a difference between "immediately" and "almost immediately"?



If we recognise that Christianity is rooted in the teachings of Christ as expressed in the practices of his first century disciples, then (according to the biblical narrative) it was not originally a political but a uniquely religious movement
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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