Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

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Diogenes
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Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

Post #1

Post by Diogenes »

Christianity (and religion in general) gets back to its primary purpose:
Being a Tool for the State.
Since Constantine, the Church has been used to serve the interests of the State.
Before Constantine, Abraham invoked the name of 'God' to build and control his tribe.

Now we have the Russian Orthodox Church supporting the genocide against the Ukrainian people.
Since March 6th, when Kirill, the patriarch of Moscow and primate of the Russian Orthodox Church, gave an incendiary homily likening Russia’s invasion to a culture war against the West, plenty of questions have been asked about his role and his motives. Is he a tool of Vladimir Putin or Putin’s spiritual adviser? Is his vision of “Russky Mir” (“Russian World”) the basis for Putin’s war
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-co ... in-ukraine
There's nothing new under the Sun, but at least the Pope gets it:
"Pope Francis warned the leader of the Russian Orthodox Church not to be “Putin’s altar boy” and justify the Russian president’s invasion of Ukraine."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... h-ukraine/
[edit]
The question for debate: Is the primary purpose of religion to aid the State in its control of the populace?*

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*Thanks to brunumb for reminding me to pose a question for debate
Last edited by Diogenes on Thu May 05, 2022 1:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

Post #2

Post by brunumb »

[Replying to Diogenes in post #1]

:approve: Is there a specific issue up for debate?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

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Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to Diogenes in post #1]
The question for debate: Is the primary purpose of religion to aid the State in its control of the populace?*
I'm not sure if it was its primary purpose originally, but it sure seems that way these days: politicians look to the religious groups to support their ideas. What's happening in the USA shows this to be true, as well as other parts of the world (parts of the world that have a high group of religious people anyway).
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

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Post by 1213 »

Diogenes wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:55 pm Christianity (and religion in general) gets back to its primary purpose:
...
If that would be true, I don't think Jesus and his disciples would have been killed, tortured and otherwise persecuted. And Jesus would not have said:

...But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Mat. 23:4-12

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Re: Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

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Post by Diogenes »

1213 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:45 am
Diogenes wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:55 pm Christianity (and religion in general) gets back to its primary purpose:
...
If that would be true, I don't think Jesus and his disciples would have been killed, tortured and otherwise persecuted. And Jesus would not have said:

...But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Mat. 23:4-12
You are confusing sincerity with actuality. One of the reasons Jesus was killed may have been his sometimes incendiary rhetoric as he thundered against the hypocrisy of the church of his day:
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are."
Matthew 23:15
Jesus and Christianity have very little in common.
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Re: Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

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Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to Diogenes in post #1
The state commandeers religions, often with the help of ambitious clergy. I believe that splinter religions are often attempts to escape that commandeering.

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Re: Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

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Post by Tcg »

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #6]

"Splinter religions?" What's the difference between them and any other religion? Is Christianity one of them?


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Re: Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

Post #8

Post by bjs1 »

Diogenes wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:55 pm
The question for debate: Is the primary purpose of religion to aid the State in its control of the populace?*
If that is its purpose then it has failed miserably. It has just as often been a bane to those in power as it has been an aid. From the "mandate of heaven" in Taoism to the Christian-led civil rights protests in America, religious faith has been a great support for just leaders and a genuine pain for those who violate religious mandates.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
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Re: Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

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Post by Athetotheist »

Tcg wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 12:39 am [Replying to Athetotheist in post #6]

"Splinter religions?" What's the difference between them and any other religion? Is Christianity one of them?


Tcg
In Christianity, the splinters are known as denominations.

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Re: Christiantianity Gets Back to its Political Roots

Post #10

Post by Diogenes »

bjs1 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 2:27 am
Diogenes wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:55 pm
The question for debate: Is the primary purpose of religion to aid the State in its control of the populace?*
If that is its purpose then it has failed miserably. It has just as often been a bane to those in power as it has been an aid. From the "mandate of heaven" in Taoism to the Christian-led civil rights protests in America, religious faith has been a great support for just leaders and a genuine pain for those who violate religious mandates.
While it is true, we will always have a very few, like Jesus, who are true believers and revolutionaries, in general religion is used to control the populace, to get them to conform to the State, to placate them. This is what tribal religions like Judaism do. We certainly see this with Constantine, who apparently did not care much about which version of Christianity the Councils of Nicaea came up with, as long as it was a unifying one.

Donald Trump got his biggest single voting block by appealing to white evangelicals. And now we see the Russian Orthodox Church in lockstep with Putin. Paul aids and abets this of course with his infamous passage in Romans:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. [13:1]
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