The Central Problem with Christianity

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Diogenes
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The Central Problem with Christianity

Post #1

Post by Diogenes »

Jesus (and Paul) thought the world was going to end soon. This is why Jesus told people to give away their possessions, and Paul taught people should not marry. Jesus spoke very specifically about the world ending in the lifetime of those he preached to. [I won't go into the verses, because it will spawn the usual verbal gymnastics about how he did not mean what he said]

Christians, for the most part, ignore the idea of not attaining wealth. They also ignore the admonition not to marry. They ignore these basic Christian teachings because they don't like them. Instead, they claim Jesus didn't really mean what he said about the end coming soon. This provides cover for getting married and accumulating wealth.

The question for debate is, "Why do most Christians marry and try to accumulate wealth despite the very clear New Testament admonitions to do the opposite?
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth
and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal.
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor
rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal.
__ Matthew 6:19-20
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Re: The Central Problem with Christianity

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Post by Miles »

Diogenes wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:15 pm Jesus (and Paul) thought the world was going to end soon. This is why Jesus told people to give away their possessions, and Paul taught people should not marry. Jesus spoke very specifically about the world ending in the lifetime of those he preached to. [I won't go into the verses, because it will spawn the usual verbal gymnastics about how he did not mean what he said]

Christians, for the most part, ignore the idea of not attaining wealth. They also ignore the admonition not to marry. They ignore these basic Christian teachings because they don't like them. Instead, they claim Jesus didn't really mean what he said about the end coming soon. This provides cover for getting married and accumulating wealth.

The question for debate is, "Why do most Christians marry and try to accumulate wealth despite the very clear New Testament admonitions to do the opposite?
Because they recognize the Bible as a book that can be Image to suit any need at hand.

Don't like those passages that tell you not to marry or accumulate wealth? Then simply ignore them. It's done all the time.


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Re: The Central Problem with Christianity

Post #3

Post by Tcg »

[Replying to Diogenes in post #1]

It's a very good question. The answer is probably the same as why Christians don't expect God to answer their prayers in the way Jesus claimed they would be answered. It's simply not a practical approach to life. As we often hear, God helps those who help themselves which is pretty much the same as you better do it yourself, no one including God is going to do it for you.

Does one want some degree of security in life? Accumulate some degree of wealth.

Does one want to find meaning and fulfillment and again perhaps some degree of security? Have children.


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Re: The Central Problem with Christianity

Post #4

Post by theophile »

Diogenes wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:15 pm Jesus (and Paul) thought the world was going to end soon. This is why Jesus told people to give away their possessions, and Paul taught people should not marry. Jesus spoke very specifically about the world ending in the lifetime of those he preached to. [I won't go into the verses, because it will spawn the usual verbal gymnastics about how he did not mean what he said]

Christians, for the most part, ignore the idea of not attaining wealth. They also ignore the admonition not to marry. They ignore these basic Christian teachings because they don't like them. Instead, they claim Jesus didn't really mean what he said about the end coming soon. This provides cover for getting married and accumulating wealth.

The question for debate is, "Why do most Christians marry and try to accumulate wealth despite the very clear New Testament admonitions to do the opposite?
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth
and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal.
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor
rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal.
__ Matthew 6:19-20
Could I offer a different way of looking at it? Few points.

1) It's not the end of the world as in an asteroid hits us and it's all over. Rather it's the end of an age (the age of sin). And yes, all things will pass away, but things will also be made new again. (The point is, the end is not the end, but a new beginning.)

2) It's not that we shouldn't accumulate wealth or marry because the world as we know it is going to end, but rather because these are the shifts required to bring about the changing of the age. The new world order will come (/all things will be made new) because we've stopped living in sin, part of which means we no longer focus on accumulating wealth (i.e., putting our trust in money, spouse, what have you, over God).

3) The reason that end never came is, well, because nobody really listened or followed through. So to answer your question, it is because many / most Christians are hypocrites according to these core teachings.

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Re: The Central Problem with Christianity

Post #5

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to Diogenes in post #1]
"Why do most Christians marry and try to accumulate wealth despite the very clear New Testament admonitions to do the opposite?
Because the bible has been written and edited ambiguously enough to allow for most any minority belief that fits one's chosen lifestyle agenda. That and some people just want to live their lives as they see fit, while ALSO telling others how to live theirs.
Seems christianity hasn't been drawing the 'type' of people it was intended to do originally.

In regards to 'the central problem with christianity', I'd say that is its unbelievability and supernatural premise that's expected to be accepted simply because the bible says so.
But that's just me.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: The Central Problem with Christianity

Post #6

Post by TRANSPONDER »

theophile wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:24 am
Diogenes wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:15 pm Jesus (and Paul) thought the world was going to end soon. This is why Jesus told people to give away their possessions, and Paul taught people should not marry. Jesus spoke very specifically about the world ending in the lifetime of those he preached to. [I won't go into the verses, because it will spawn the usual verbal gymnastics about how he did not mean what he said]

Christians, for the most part, ignore the idea of not attaining wealth. They also ignore the admonition not to marry. They ignore these basic Christian teachings because they don't like them. Instead, they claim Jesus didn't really mean what he said about the end coming soon. This provides cover for getting married and accumulating wealth.

The question for debate is, "Why do most Christians marry and try to accumulate wealth despite the very clear New Testament admonitions to do the opposite?
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth
and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal.
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor
rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal.
__ Matthew 6:19-20
Could I offer a different way of looking at it? Few points.

1) It's not the end of the world as in an asteroid hits us and it's all over. Rather it's the end of an age (the age of sin). And yes, all things will pass away, but things will also be made new again. (The point is, the end is not the end, but a new beginning.)

2) It's not that we shouldn't accumulate wealth or marry because the world as we know it is going to end, but rather because these are the shifts required to bring about the changing of the age. The new world order will come (/all things will be made new) because we've stopped living in sin, part of which means we no longer focus on accumulating wealth (i.e., putting our trust in money, spouse, what have you, over God).

3) The reason that end never came is, well, because nobody really listened or followed through. So to answer your question, it is because many / most Christians are hypocrites according to these core teachings.
All that strikes as one of the problems with Christianity. Either it is life - denying and sees it as a miserable existence the sooner all ended the better (and they say it is atheism that must be nihilist and suicidal) or it isn't (and for most of them it actually isn't) and they either pay lip -service to a dogmatic claim they don't really believe or they don't believe it and that's that. Though I suppose all of them hope for a second coming to put everything right, which is a futile enough dogma anyway.

But my problem with it is that it isn't true, on all evidence, rather than how it actually operates in the world.

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Re: The Central Problem with Christianity

Post #7

Post by 1213 »

Diogenes wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:15 pm Jesus (and Paul) thought the world was going to end soon. This is why Jesus told people to give away their possessions, ...
I don't think that is the reason for giving away possessions. But, why do you think that is the central problem?

Also, I think it is not as simple matter as you think, because:

Jesus said, “Most assuredly I tell you, there is no one who has left house, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or land, for my sake, and for the gospel’s sake, but he will receive one hundred times more now in this time, houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and land, with persecutions; and in the age to come eternal life.
Mark 10:29-30

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Re: The Central Problem with Christianity

Post #8

Post by POI »

As a doubter to the 'authority' of the Bible, allow me to offer my 2 cents...
1213 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:44 am
Diogenes wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:15 pm Jesus (and Paul) thought the world was going to end soon. This is why Jesus told people to give away their possessions, ...
I don't think that is the reason for giving away possessions. But, why do you think that is the central problem?
My understanding is that owning possessions could/would get in the way of numero uno --- (Christ/Jesus/God). Hence, the more possessions you own, the higher the chance you have of coveting these items; rather than to instead focus your sole efforts/importance on 'God'. But of course, I would need to reference differing Verses of the Bible to support my position... For which one could still ask the Christian, why seek to procure any type of possessions/wealth? Seems as though "Jesus" was not in favor of 'wealth' regardless....

But I do see where 'Diogenes' gets his conclusion. Why? As I see it, the Bible can be used to support opposing positions ;) This is why you will see a Catholic church set directly next to a Baptist church, which also sets next to a Seven Day Adventists church, which may set next to a Methodist church, etc.........

The question remains.... Did Jesus, as well as some/all of these Bible authors, believe the end was coming soon? I'd say it is not far fetched to think so... Why? Look at the many today who also believe the (end times) are also near. ~2000 years and counting.... What the heck is "Jesus/God/other" waiting for?

I'd wager to say the 'central message' here is that the Bible author(s) thought the end was near, but that clearly has not happened. Hence, the Bible writers were wrong.... Christians can hide behind the ambiguity of the assertions (i.e.):

Mark 13:32 -- But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Matt. 24:44 -- Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc............................
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: The Central Problem with Christianity

Post #9

Post by Diogenes »

POI wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:30 am
The question remains.... Did Jesus, as well as some/all of these Bible authors, believe the end was coming soon? I'd say it is not far fetched to think so... Why? Look at the many today who also believe the (end times) are also near. ~2000 years and counting.... What the heck is "Jesus/God/other" waiting for?

I'd wager to say the 'central message' here is that the Bible author(s) thought the end was near, but that clearly has not happened. Hence, the Bible writers were wrong.... Christians can hide behind the ambiguity of the assertions (i.e.):

Mark 13:32 -- But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Matt. 24:44 -- Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc............................
If you want to have some fun, watch the way apologists try to get around these very specific verses:
I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes (Matt. 10:23).

Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom (Matt. 16:28).

Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place (Matt. 24:34).

I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God (Luke 9:27).
They change the meaning of "this generation," then fall back on "you won't know the day or the hour" as if not knowing the exact day turns 30 years into 2000 and counting. Then there is the "end of the age" nonsense.
Not marrying and giving everything to the poor is a great way for a cult to die out. It ONLY makes sense if the world is actually going to end soon.
Jesus was a great teacher and charismatic, but in the end he was a failed apocalyptic preacher. This is the central problem for Christianity because there is no explaining away the fact that he did not return. Christianity is 2000 years of excuse making for this failed prophesy.
Last edited by Diogenes on Thu May 05, 2022 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Central Problem with Christianity

Post #10

Post by POI »


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In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

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