Seems there exists an unresolved topic amongst Christians... Seems as though the way to salvation is not unified among the many in which I engage. I'd wager they all have a case to support their position(s).?.?
For debate: How does one get to Heaven? What is God's criteria for His selection process? Is it by grace alone, belief/faith alone, works alone; or it is a combination of the three? Or is it maybe other? Please, not only present your case, but please also explain why the other asserted methods are incorrect.
Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
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Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #1In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #21That would be a very good question if SALVATION and GOING TO HEAVEN were equivalent. But they are not; so the question makes no biblical sense.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #22Interesting, okay. Allow me to rephrase... But please note this is why I stated (and/or), as we seem to have countless denomination(s)/other.
Where does the Bible stand in achieving salvation (i.e.)?
- Grace alone
- Grace by faith/belief alone
- Grace by faith/belief + works
- Other
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #23Paul and James mention the word "works" in a different sense. Paul says that there is no need for "works" based on the Law of Moses; James says that a true Christian is not only one who believe, but also for practicing justice, the biblical principles.
It is obvious that if a person DOES NOT DO what pleases God, he will not obtain eternal life when everyone is judged for the things that he does. Paul knew that very well:
1 Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #241. Is baptism required?Eloi wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:00 pmPaul and James mention the word "works" in a different sense. Paul says that there is no need for "works" based on the Law of Moses; James says that a true Christian is not only one who believe, but also for practicing justice, the biblical principles.
It is obvious that if a person DOES NOT DO what pleases God, he will not obtain eternal life when everyone is judged for the things that he does. Paul knew that very well:
1 Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.
2. By default, at birth or before natural birth, are humans deemed "righteous" or "unrighteous"?
3. Must a person be free from all the said above to achieve salvation?
I'll stop here for now...
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #25If you need a Bible study you can try it here https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/g ... dy-course/ or to ask for a visit here https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... t-a-visit/ or maybe find where we meet near you, here https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/meetings/POI wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:20 pm1. Is baptism required?Eloi wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:00 pmPaul and James mention the word "works" in a different sense. Paul says that there is no need for "works" based on the Law of Moses; James says that a true Christian is not only one who believe, but also for practicing justice, the biblical principles.
It is obvious that if a person DOES NOT DO what pleases God, he will not obtain eternal life when everyone is judged for the things that he does. Paul knew that very well:
1 Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.
2. By default, at birth or before natural birth, are humans deemed "righteous" or "unrighteous"?
3. Must a person be free from all the said above to achieve salvation?
I'll stop here for now...
All your questions will be answered.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #26Any/all questions posed here could apparently be answered by exploring the internet. I'm asking you. Do you know the answers to these questions? I would assume you have an answer for them. Hence, I can only speculate why you do not answer them? These are all (one word) answers.Eloi wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:26 pmIf you need a Bible study you can try it here https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/g ... dy-course/ or to ask for a visit here https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... t-a-visit/ or maybe find where we meet near you, here https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/meetings/POI wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:20 pm1. Is baptism required?Eloi wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:00 pmPaul and James mention the word "works" in a different sense. Paul says that there is no need for "works" based on the Law of Moses; James says that a true Christian is not only one who believe, but also for practicing justice, the biblical principles.
It is obvious that if a person DOES NOT DO what pleases God, he will not obtain eternal life when everyone is judged for the things that he does. Paul knew that very well:
1 Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.
2. By default, at birth or before natural birth, are humans deemed "righteous" or "unrighteous"?
3. Must a person be free from all the said above to achieve salvation?
I'll stop here for now...
All your questions will be answered.
1. Is baptism required? (yes or no)
2. By default, at birth or before natural birth, are humans deemed "righteous" or "unrighteous"? (righteous or unrighteous)
3. Must a person be free from all the said above to achieve salvation? (yes or no)
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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- Posts: 1775
- Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 pm
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #27Thanks for your interest. I have no time to answer all your questions, but now you know where to find the answers.POI wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:31 pmAny/all questions posed here could apparently be answered by exploring the internet. I'm asking you. Do you know the answers to these questions? I would assume you have an answer for them. Hence, I can only speculate why you do not answer them? These are all (one word) answers.Eloi wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:26 pmIf you need a Bible study you can try it here https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/g ... dy-course/ or to ask for a visit here https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... t-a-visit/ or maybe find where we meet near you, here https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/meetings/POI wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:20 pm1. Is baptism required?Eloi wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:00 pmPaul and James mention the word "works" in a different sense. Paul says that there is no need for "works" based on the Law of Moses; James says that a true Christian is not only one who believe, but also for practicing justice, the biblical principles.
It is obvious that if a person DOES NOT DO what pleases God, he will not obtain eternal life when everyone is judged for the things that he does. Paul knew that very well:
1 Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.
2. By default, at birth or before natural birth, are humans deemed "righteous" or "unrighteous"?
3. Must a person be free from all the said above to achieve salvation?
I'll stop here for now...
All your questions will be answered.
1. Is baptism required? (yes or no)
2. By default, at birth or before natural birth, are humans deemed "righteous" or "unrighteous"? (righteous or unrighteous)
3. Must a person be free from all the said above to achieve salvation? (yes or no)
Have a nice day.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #28At least be consistent. If this is really your position, you would have been <one-and-done> with your now given response; at your very first post involvement, (1052 posts ago). Thus, as it stands, I refer back to post #6. It's best you not let inquiring minds dig too deep into your position, as confusion would then soon surface.Eloi wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:43 pmThanks for your interest. I have no time to answer all your questions, but now you know where to find the answers.POI wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:31 pmAny/all questions posed here could apparently be answered by exploring the internet. I'm asking you. Do you know the answers to these questions? I would assume you have an answer for them. Hence, I can only speculate why you do not answer them? These are all (one word) answers.Eloi wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:26 pmIf you need a Bible study you can try it here https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/g ... dy-course/ or to ask for a visit here https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... t-a-visit/ or maybe find where we meet near you, here https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/meetings/POI wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:20 pm1. Is baptism required?Eloi wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:00 pmPaul and James mention the word "works" in a different sense. Paul says that there is no need for "works" based on the Law of Moses; James says that a true Christian is not only one who believe, but also for practicing justice, the biblical principles.
It is obvious that if a person DOES NOT DO what pleases God, he will not obtain eternal life when everyone is judged for the things that he does. Paul knew that very well:
1 Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.
2. By default, at birth or before natural birth, are humans deemed "righteous" or "unrighteous"?
3. Must a person be free from all the said above to achieve salvation?
I'll stop here for now...
All your questions will be answered.
1. Is baptism required? (yes or no)
2. By default, at birth or before natural birth, are humans deemed "righteous" or "unrighteous"? (righteous or unrighteous)
3. Must a person be free from all the said above to achieve salvation? (yes or no)
Have a nice day.
Ta ta
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #29It took more time to write that Claytons response than it would have taken to type the three words answering the questions you were asked. I think anyone following the discussion will understand exactly why you 'deferred' instead.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #30I am sure of that: everybody would know why I did ... I just said it: "I have no time to answer all your questions". It is my time.brunumb wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:44 pmIt took more time to write that Claytons response than it would have taken to type the three words answering the questions you were asked. I think anyone following the discussion will understand exactly why you 'deferred' instead.
Next.