To have faith in something, you have to believe and hope that, against what seems normal, your desired end result comes to fruition.
Want to be cured of your terminal disease? Have faith.
Want to be able to pay your bill, even though your account shows you can't? Have faith.
Want to think your loved ones will make it to heaven? Have faith.
But is 'having faith' showing you're weak?
Want to be cured of your terminal disease? Why not get off your butt and seek medical treatment?
Want to be able to pay your bills? How's 'bout you get another or different job?
Want your loved ones to get to heaven? Do something about it.
There are those that both, have faith and work to better their situation. But are they doing enough?
For discussion:
Does the act of 'having faith' allow for laziness within believers, relying only on their belief in god and not their own ability to better themselves?*
*This is not to say, explicitly, that all believers are lazy (though there is an argument for that as well), but by having faith either allows for more laziness or is held by people who are more likely to be lazy.
Is faith for the lazy?
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Re: Is faith for the lazy?
Post #21I have seen many a deconversion - story wherein the Believer wrestled with doubt and question, looking for answers first from mentors (who told them to Just Have Faith), the pages of the Bible (which just threw up more problems) and finally from God. And there was no answer.Tcg wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 2:27 pm [Replying to nobspeople in post #1]
Some faithful stay quite busy it seems studying their holy books and even more so resources that help explain the many difficulties they present. Beyond that, some spend a great deal of effort arguing with other faithful over the "proper interpretation" of said holy books. Of course, I often get the impression that this activity helps avoid the nagging doubts that many experience concerning their faith. But, stay busy enough and one can ignore most anything.
Tcg
Then the whole chain of illogical faith - claims went right down the tube.
I was thinking of posting a topic about... ah yes, Forgiveness. Occasioned by a very bee -stung response to what appeared to be a general point. I immediately thought: 'shouldn't you forgive?' and I looked it up. It seems based on Paul and Matthew and is more about playing nice with fellow Christians, no such command to forgive the goddless . But there were online points about forgiving but not forgetting, with God not forgetting - which is only OT, all changed by Jesus) and giving a view of heaven with God not forgetting any of the transgressions but forgiving them. But the worshippers must forget transgressions, or how can they live in heaven with the transgressors?
I'll leave that for our Resident Topic -poster, Joey to put as a topic, if he will.
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Re: Is faith for the lazy?
Post #22You know that is what I think happens mostly, 'stay busy enough and one can ignore anything'.Tcg wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 2:27 pm [Replying to nobspeople in post #1]
Some faithful stay quite busy it seems studying their holy books and even more so resources that help explain the many difficulties they present. Beyond that, some spend a great deal of effort arguing with other faithful over the "proper interpretation" of said holy books. Of course, I often get the impression that this activity helps avoid the nagging doubts that many experience concerning their faith. But, stay busy enough and one can ignore most anything.
Tcg
Everyone is so afraid today, in society, politics in general, to not be seen totally agreeing with their own side.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
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Re: Is faith for the lazy?
Post #23You should know better. That is just James' opinion. It is Paul's opinion that Faith is enough without works that matters. James is not Paul. So far as I can tell, James is actually disagreeing with Paul. Paul does concede (I Cor.) that one must avoid sin, but Faith (without works) IS good enough for Grace. Given that (so I am told) God gives no guarantee that Grace will Save, but we can guess how the odds will look.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 11:03 am The bible says ...
So no biblical faith is not for the "lazy".
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Re: Is faith for the lazy?
Post #24What works was Paul referring to?TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 10:13 am It is Paul's opinion that Faith is enough without works that matters.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Is faith for the lazy?
Post #25Any and all works (deeds). Particularly those that might imperil grace and salvation. I Cor. 4.10, for an example.
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Re: Is faith for the lazy?
Post #26No need for me to get too deep into flat earthism, with someone who doesn't believe in a flat earth.We_Are_VENOM wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 11:41 pmSure, whatever you say.Willum wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 5:34 pm [Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #13]
Do you not read they Bible at all?
Not all that accept your reprobate god’s son are saved.
You need to give everything to the poor in some cases, and there are others.
Accepting Jesus only gets you to Heaven if you guessed the right church/other beliefs to hold.
No need for me to get too deep into Christian theology, with someone who doesn't believe in Christian theology.
Do you not think your words through before posting them?
If only a God were to assist you here...
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
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Re: Is faith for the lazy?
Post #27If we assume that the methodology here is
(a) silence the atheists by refuting them (and keep in mind that any method will do because Godfaith is based in Faith, not logic or evidence)
(b) cancel them, by running away shouting 'I win', starting a fight, a deep dive, shaming or asking why they are arguing about something they don't believe. For the same reasons Creationists put so much effort into debunking evolution - which they don't believe, either.
P.s In a way Faith might be 'easy' as it provides a purpose in Life, ready made, requires no thought and (at least right now) surrounds the believer with a like -minded society.
Rationality is harder work, but better and more rewarding in the end, I'd say.
(a) silence the atheists by refuting them (and keep in mind that any method will do because Godfaith is based in Faith, not logic or evidence)
(b) cancel them, by running away shouting 'I win', starting a fight, a deep dive, shaming or asking why they are arguing about something they don't believe. For the same reasons Creationists put so much effort into debunking evolution - which they don't believe, either.
P.s In a way Faith might be 'easy' as it provides a purpose in Life, ready made, requires no thought and (at least right now) surrounds the believer with a like -minded society.
Rationality is harder work, but better and more rewarding in the end, I'd say.
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Re: Is faith for the lazy?
Post #28Um, no. My disbelief in evolution is based on the lack of evidence for it, and the positive evidence against it.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:18 am
Ok. It will be noted that your kneejerk rejection is based on nothing but personal dislike.
My dislike for the theory is just a fun fact.
Well, when it comes to the theory of evolution, it isn't necessary incompatible with Christian faith (per se), and there are some who believe in theistic evolution.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:18 am However, to get back to topic, that is very easy for the Faithful and we know that 'evidence' is dismissed on the grounds that it is misinterpreted by science, which is always getting things wrong. That of course will suit the Bible apologists very well and also your argument that it is 'Faith' both ways. But that depends on whether one trusts the scientific take on the evidence or not.
For myself, if I didn't I wouldn't trust anything science did, but we all do. The fact is that science deniers trust science unquestioningly unless it contradicts their faith and then they dismiss it. It is self -serving, hypocritical and lazy to do so.
So, at that point, it has nothing to do with contradicting faith, does it?
Now, besides evolution, science has to make sense in light of what I know to be true, and when it doesn't...then that is when I have to question the science.
Yeah, kind of like the amount of work done, and the lengths scientists go through to get us back to an infinite universe (steady state theory, oscillating models, quantum gravity models, etc).TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:18 am Though again, a huge amount of work goes into the use of science to try to debunk science. Take Behe's I/C, Woodmorappe's Ark apologetics or Brown's revised geology. The amount or work that went into trying to justify a science revised so as to fit Genesis was staggering.
Because if you admit the universe had a beginning, then you've got problems. Theistic problems.
Yup, as acknowledged above. I will continue to disagree with theist/creationist who entertains the notion that God used evolution as a method for creation.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:18 am Incidentally Venom, you do realise that Creationism accepts the fact of evolution, don't you?
Ouch.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:18 am They just deny that it can lead to speciation. For general information of course. I don't expect you to post any reasonable response.
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Re: Is faith for the lazy?
Post #29Yup. My sentiments exactly.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:31 am On the contrary. It is basic to Bible - criticism to get into 'theology' as you call it. I rarely dabble in theology as I agree - why would I discuss theology when I don't believe it? But that is (translated) suggesting that critics leave Christianity alone if they don't believe it.
Nice try. This is a false narrative. No one is pushing anything on unbelievers. Stop the madness.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:31 am Because it gets forced on us every day, in school, work and politics, unless we keep pushing so that doesn't happen.
But the questions that are asked on here goes beyond the just "don't push your religion on us".TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:31 am We God -denying pondslime are happy to let people believe what they want. But they should not force those beliefs on others, which is what religion, and particularly religion with a political angle (which is what we inevitably get) habitually does, and all religious (or cultic) claims should be countered by the counter argument, available to the public, otherwise we get the Strobel -spoof, where only the Theist arguments are presented as though they were impartial research.
That, chum, is why we get involved in the 'theology'.
The questions and subject matters that are discussed on here, dives deep into theology...
viewforum.php?f=38
Any of the questions on that subforum doesn't strike me as folks who want to simply do away with religion.
There is something else there.
"Don't push your religion on me". Yet, "Did Jesus die for some, or all".
Not necessarily compatible frames of mind.
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Re: Is faith for the lazy?
Post #30Yeah, and this is me thinking my words through before posting them..
Me thinking: "Well one thing is for certain, you won't find me on a debate forum debating with others as to whether the earth is flat or not."
Now, I thought my words through, and now I am posting them.
*Clicks submit*
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